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missyd
so, back in september bmw introduced the hydro 7 to the american market. i've been on the edge of my seat for the last 6 years waiting for this (that was the first time i rode in a hydrogen car).

it's exciting because this car can use both regular gasoline to run as well as liquid hydrogen. and its bi-product? water. when using only the hydrogen, of course. but it's a start.

from about.com:
QUOTE
By introducing the Hydrogen 7, BMW is taking the initiative and making a powerful statement about its commitment to influence an expanding and maturing hydrogen economy. To promote the building of hydrogen filling stations, BMW has worked with the Clean Energy Partnership (CEP) Berlin since its inception. Along with other CEP companies such as DaimlerChrysler, Ford, GM/Opel, Volkswagen, Hydro and Linde, BMW is pursuing the objective of developing hydrogen as an everyday worldwide transportation fuel. With support from a research alliance with the U.S. Department of Energy and the EU's Hydrogen Fuel Cell Technology Platform, BMW has also placed a stake in fuel cell development to further promote and solidify hydrogen's status as a transportation fuel. The future looks very bright indeed!


IPB Image

any thoughts? comments?
Laugh 4Food
its awesome, i think its great that we are finally switching over to a system that is less of a pollutant. however i don't think we will see many of these in America for a good 20 years mainly because.
change is hard for a big country
we already have gas stations adding a hydrogen pump would cost a lot
plus a whole new infer structure would have to be created so that not only would gas be trucked everywhere but also hydrogen would have to be trucked everywhere.
it would be like re inventing the wheel on how to fuel Americas transportation. It will probobly start to become more prominent in mass transit before it becomes a chose at the pump.
moongoddess256
I don't know much on the subject... but what if the car gets in an accident? Couldn't that cause a massive explosion?
missyd
this is true. but i feel that it is a fantastic start that will hopefully move us on a path away from fossil fuels.

and then there's global warming to consider - and this is a direction in the positive.

QUOTE(moongoddess256 @ Nov. 12, 2007. 08:27 PM) [snapback]672488[/snapback]

I don't know much on the subject... but what if the car gets in an accident? Couldn't that cause a massive explosion?


yes, but the same is pretty much true with gasoline cars.

just the other day i saw an idiot light a cigarette in a gas station. a lady in the car neighboring his said "please, put that out."

his response? "fuck you." luckily, his now-horrified friends told him "dude, you can't smoke that here! it could set something off!" and he put it out. geez, though.

but ya, technically it can blow up. but cars can already do that..
Srsparkyjr
It is good for the environment and such, but water prices will rise and we need water to survive,
missyd
QUOTE(Srsparkyjr @ Nov. 12, 2007. 08:33 PM) [snapback]672494[/snapback]

It is good for the environment and such, but water prices will rise and we need water to survive,


the bi-product of the car is water though. not co2, but water.
moongoddess256
When I think Hydrogen I think of the Hindenburg...
missyd
autobloggreen.com says:
QUOTE
Hydrogen technology dramatically reduces emissions generated by personal transport and, in particular, minimizes the emission of CO2. Running in the hydrogen mode, the BMW Hydrogen 7 essentially emits nothing but vapor. And, unlike fossil fuels and traditional gasoline, hydrogen is available in virtually infinite supply. With the BMW Hydrogen 7, the BMW Group is laying down a marker for sustainable mobility


the hydrogen is not in gas form, but in liquid hydrogen form kept in a sturdy tank.
Laugh 4Food
QUOTE(missyd @ Nov. 12, 2007. 11:30 PM) [snapback]672490[/snapback]



just the other day i saw an idiot light a cigarette in a gas station. a lady in the car neighboring his said "please, put that out."

his response? "fuck you." luckily, his now-horrified friends told him "dude, you can't smoke that here! it could set something off!" and he put it out. geez, though.


lol what a moron


i think however that hydrogen lights much easier than gas.

for example dropping a lit match into a can of liquid gasoline, will put the match out.
i don't think that its the same for hydrogen
missyd
sorry for all my quotes, but i can't state it much better:

QUOTE

The BMW Hydrogen 7 perfectly captures the essence of the BMW CleanEnergy strategy. By using hydrogen produced from water and renewable energy, such as wind, sun or hydropower, in an internal combustion engine, the car's emissions are essentially nothing but vapor. And, with this emitted water vapor, the cycle can start again and the dream of sustainable mobility without using fossil fuel resources and without impacting the earth's climate can become a reality. The complete change from a fossil fuel infrastructure to a hydrogen economy will require decades, but with the Hydrogen 7, BMW shows that bringing hydrogen technology to the road is indeed feasible.


and...

QUOTE

The driver is able to switch from hydrogen to gasoline mode manually by pressing a button on the multifunction steering wheel. Because engine power and torque remain exactly the same regardless of the mode of operation, switching from one mode to another has no effect on the driving behavior and performance of the BMW Hydrogen 7.

moongoddess256
QUOTE(missyd @ Nov. 12, 2007. 11:37 PM) [snapback]672501[/snapback]

autobloggreen.com says:
QUOTE
Hydrogen technology dramatically reduces emissions generated by personal transport and, in particular, minimizes the emission of CO2. Running in the hydrogen mode, the BMW Hydrogen 7 essentially emits nothing but vapor. And, unlike fossil fuels and traditional gasoline, hydrogen is available in virtually infinite supply. With the BMW Hydrogen 7, the BMW Group is laying down a marker for sustainable mobility


the hydrogen is not in gas form, but in liquid hydrogen form kept in a sturdy tank.


Which simply means its condensed, thus having even MORE energy to release. I'm asking what happens if that tank gets punctured?
missyd
i'm currently trying to find out.

i remember that 6 years ago they already had the car created through several companies, but hadn't released it due to trying to create higher safety standards. i'm looking for how they improved it currently, since it has been 6 years and all.

(funny story, i was in a girl scout "engineering" camp sponsored by intel. there we got to learn about hybrid and hydrogen cars as well as ride in both. )

quoted from Motoring Channel Staff:
QUOTE
Hydrogen Storage - Is It Safe?

What if a truck smashes into the back of your car, which has highly volatile compressed hydrogen in its tank - will it explode? No, says BMW.

The BMW Group has put the Hydrogen 7 through a complete programme of crash tests going beyond the usual legal requirements. These crash tests include frontal offset collisions in accordance with EURO NCAP at an impact speed of 64km/h (40mph), rear-end collisions with 100 and 40 per cent overlap, as well as side-on collisions at the car's most sensitive point directly on the fuel filler pipe.

BMW claims to have tested the hydrogen tanks in even more extreme accident scenarios, where the hydrogen tanks were exposed to flames, firearm shots and massive mechanical damage. In an additional series of tests, tanks filled with hydrogen were fully encompassed by flames at a temperature of more than 1,000 °C (1,830 °F) for up to 70 minutes, and even under such conditions, tank behaviour did not present any problems, with the hydrogen in the tanks escaping slowly and almost imperceptibly through the safety valves.

Whenever hydrogen is able to escape into the air, it rises up quickly to higher levels, simply because it is 15 times lighter than the ambient air around it. And while hydrogen is neither irritating nor toxic, says BMW, it is more easily ignitable than gasoline or diesel as soon as it forms an appropriate mixture with air. BMW stresses that the most important point, however, is that hydrogen is absolutely safe as long as its characteristic features and properties are duly taken into account.

As an example, the liquid hydrogen tank comes not only with a boil-off management system, but also with two redundant valves monitoring the contents of the tank in the event of a significant build-up of pressure – for example as a result of damage to the tank – and letting off hydrogen under controlled conditions if necessary. As soon as the first valve opens up, hydrogen is guided up to the roof of the car through safety pipes fitted in the C-pillars. The second valve opening up only under higher pressure allows hydrogen to flow to the underfloor of the car, where it is also discharged into the air.

- Motoring Channel Staff


so, it's been deemed safe.



and on a side not about the price of hydrogen:
QUOTE
One of the problems with such a vehicle is that hydrogen fuel is expensive (though prices will fall as demand increases), and the refilling stations are currently quite rare - there will be about 12 of them worldwide in 2007.
moongoddess256
wow the safety thing sounds complicated, but I guess then all we have to worry about then is if hydrogen fuel becomes commonplace and manufacturers get sloppy... with just a defect or two there could be some real problems. For now I'm all about the hybrids. Efficiency should hold us off until we find the ideal fuel alternative.
missyd
QUOTE(moongoddess256 @ Nov. 12, 2007. 08:55 PM) [snapback]672521[/snapback]

wow the safety thing sounds complicated, but I guess then all we have to worry about then is if hydrogen fuel becomes commonplace and manufacturers get sloppy... with just a defect or two there could be some real problems. For now I'm all about the hybrids. Efficiency should hold us off until we find the ideal fuel alternative.

personally, i feel that its unlikely to have too many defects.

and hybrids are run on energy and gasoline - energy usually created from fossil fuels as well (and which is now becoming more scarce - look at the constant rolling blackouts in california)
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