http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/mi...&ei=5087%0A

Let me start off by saying I am all for peace. 100% No- make that 500%.

But as some have may also heard, today I was reading about the problems in Gaza. I Arabicand from Israel, so I was obviously brought up believing that Arabs were there first, blah blah blah.

But my family and I are not racist nor are we ignorant, so I didn't keep my attention on only the POV that the Arabs created, I also listened to the Jewish side.

I was on aim today and my friend had her away message set as, "Israel." When I asked her what she meant, she said "The fact that gaza deserves what they got. they've been bombing israelis for years, i think it's time for them to shut the fuck up. and see that they're not the only ones who can be bombing everyone around." Now, at this point I was shocked. Bombing Israeli's for years? Seriously? With, what? The rocks they have laying around? Israel is the US's alli. Their alli. And she's complaining that they are killing Israelis?

And then I asked her why she thought they deserved the land and she said, "Thats where moses led his people after he freed them from egypt. thats where they built their temple. and what not. judaism is the oldest religion, about 5800 years old, i think they got there right about then. i honestly dont know how islam was originated. but what i was gonna say is that muslims and jews are one the same, its stupid. "

I found this point moot. Yes, it's the middle east and they don't really seperate church and state there, but still! She's basing her "fact" on religious myths!

Anyways, I know I'm going to get bashed on here but my questions are this:

-Who do you believe should have the upper hand here?
-What the fuck needs to be done to end this?

Please, please, please, in my last attempt to try, PLEASE don't bash me.

Please.

Before answering your questions, I would like to adress some of the ponderings in your post.

The Hamas has been "bombing" Israel for almost 8 years. Although bombing is a false term since they are not using bombs but homemade rockets known as Qassam which they mostly (or only) aim at civilian population.

As for the claim for the land, I personnaly base it less on the "myth", as you called it, of an ancient Israeli kingdom (Not a myth at all actually ), but on the UN decision from 1947 to create a Jewish country in the land of Palestine along a Palestinian one. The agreement was not accepted by arabs (quite understandable) and a war broke out. It ended with Israel victorious and in hold of more land then in the original UN decision.

As for your questions:
-I, as an Israeli (and a right-wing one at that), believe that Israel is right in going on this opperation. The Hamas brought this on themself.

-I'm afraid that this will only truly ever end is when one of the sides is gone. Peace is a beautiful dream, but it can only remain a dream as it goes against human nature. I really hope I'm wrong.

"UN decision from 1947 to create a Jewish country in the land of Palestine along a Palestinian one."

So if England decided that Jesus sent them a message that Colombia was rightfully THEIR land, or if the U.S told them that they could have Colombia, then Colombians would have to surrender it over? That's it? Land gone just like that, because it was their decision?

That isn't just.

I didn't say US, I said UN. As in United Nations. As in every country gets to vote.

Edit:
And the Example you gave has nothing to do with what I said. In the year 1947, the land known as Palestine was under british control. There was no "country" there.

I was using it as an example, but alright, lets say that the UN decided that. There goes Colombia.

I had edited my post. go back and read it.

and you're getting off topic.

That's where the other side comes in. Others say it was NOT under British control, it was a country.

Well, whoever says that is making up facts that have no basis in history. After the fall of the Ottoman Empire in WWI Britain and France had divided the empire's regions omongst them. Palestine was given to the Brits.

And please, I am tired of toturing you about history. You're getting way off topic.

Off topic? This is related to the forum I created. It's not off topic. Talking about what I did yesterday would be off topic. There's nothing wrong with understanding the history.

I don't think a claim over land is relevant anymore. There are obviously two sides for that coin, both stating historical "facts", but when it comes down to practice, reality is extremely hard to change.
If someone does wish to change this reality, peaceful solutions are the way to go. Making an enemy out of a nation will not make that nation want to help you.

Leaving that aside, there are currently two "groups" of Palestinians. One named the Fatah, which has control over the west bank and is being considered as a reasonable partner for dialogues. The other is named the Hammas, which has control over Gaza strip and has been firing home made rockets at Israel for the past 8 years or so.
I do realize that these rockets are far inferior to assault air crafts the Israeli military has, but it really doesn't change much. It all comes down to several Israeli cities feeling they are held hostage. Israel owes them some form of protection which sometimes manifests as striking the people responsible for the rockets.

The recent attack was aimed only at Hammas/Jihad militants. I can honestly say that the Israeli air force is trying to avoid hurting civilians in the process as much as it possibly can (for either political reasons or.. well, humanity).

By the way, you may or may not know this, but Egypt's actually helped Israel deceive the Hammas. Egypt's sent the Hammas a message, according to which, an attack was extremely unlikely. As a result, many Hammas militants stepped out of hiding and were eliminated.

Edit: Al Jazeera has sort of owned itself.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMjSoUEysQ4

you cant argue with tha fact that Israel has been under fire for 8 years and now its ever wrost, because more than 50 kibbutzs and cities what to live a normal life.
and you also cant argue with the fact that now, at the 21st centery, there IS a country here, and its calls Israel.
nobody has the right to try and erase this country off ground because it doenst fit to his religous believes.

SO YEAH, Israel deseve to fight back for her freedom to live peacefully in Her Own country.

sorry for spelling and grammer mistakes.

First thing, Hammas is a terror organization. They don't deny it.
It doesn't matter if they were throwing stones, home-made bombs or naplam bombs. No country would accept having any of their citizens to live for years in fear, alarms almost everyday, always have to run and hide. It doesn't matter what they throw.
It is really about time for Israel to react.
And if Palestine's citizens suffering from the attacks, the blame is on the Hammas only, since they hide between civilians, they shoot from their homes and schools, hide between them. They don't mind if their people would get killed. Even better, they want them to get killed, so the world would blame Israel for killing innocent people.
Actually, I would bet they kill civilians by themselves just to get more "awful pictures". It is really like them.
Israel fight terror.
and if one Qassam hit any American or European city, they would erase Gaza from earth, so anyone who has anything to say against the attack should go **** himself for being a stupid hypocrite hippie. Israel is attacked for 8 years.
Don't forget how Israel also gave up settlement for peace 4 years ago, and what did they do with the territory? used it to get closer for firing their rockets on Israeli cities.

If you support Hammas, you support TERROR.

Fizban, and it's not the America I know, inc.

I don't see why they had to shoot a bullet between the eyes of a kid. I guess it's part of fighting the big bad wolf. This is the result of their attacks: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/173324-L...Victims-In-Gaza

How can you be proud of that? I know I am not.


...

You are a fool to think that Israel would support something like you discribed.
Its all a big show off the Hammas does to make the world support its actions blindly. They twist the facts to their side.
All the things they say are exaggerated lies.
And I can see they have succeeded.
That just makes me sad.

So they accidently drop bombs, make children have trauma's, kill hundreds of people?
"Oops, we do it over and over again''? ''Hamas is using human shields''?
We accidently shoot bullets in the heads of children? It's not our fault, they pushed us in doing something? I don't care who is twisting what facts. I care about what happens to the innocent people there.

And apparently they are killed consciencly. Not by ''accident''.

This is the story of a guy named Khaled :



And so there are many many stories like this one about the horror they have experienced in Gaza.

If these cruel murderers were ''Hamas-soldiers'' I could understand your point. But they are not.

you know, Palestinians were removed forcefully from their territory while having to leave everything behind. they are not allowed to be citizens in their host countries, and live in refugee camps.

BOTH sides have legitimate claims. BOTH sides commit acts of terror. but consider this: Israelis have the money to supply weapons - the only way Palestinians can do anything about it their plight is through car bombs, terrorist attacks, etc.

also, Israel has done things against peace too. like develop the claimed territories that used to be homes of Palestinians.

long story short: both sides are in the wrong, and i wish they could come to terms. sadly both sides have extremists and when they nearly come to peaceful terms (like in the early 90s under Rabin), someone from their own side usually assassinates them (Rabin was assassinated in 1995 by an Israeli).


BOTH sides commit horrible atrocities. BOTH sides are in the wrong.

2500 air-strikes were issued during the operation. It's enough to completely level Gaza strip. The fact that the number of casualties amount to 1300 people means that everything humanly possible to avoid casualties was done, as opposed to the preposterous frequency of suicide bombings which took place before the Israeli military began heavily securing the borders.

Note that the Hamas' actions during the operation were as follows:
A. Retreat from any unpopulated areas and fight wherever it was most dense (as long as their regime manages to hold onl, it's in their best interest to have Israel destroy as much as possible).
B. When engaging Israeli troops, physically grab nearby children (high death counts serves the cause).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0wJXf2nt4Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J08GqXMr3YE
C. Fire from apartments (see above).
D. Store weapons and ammunition in civilian buildings and placed bombs which go off whenever soldiers come in (see above).

Seriously, nobody fucking enjoys shooting children and nobody's proud of that.

I don't know what people were thinking since 1948 and quite frankly, it no longer matters.
The public over here just wants to be left the fuck alone. No one would mind returning to the 67 borders if they didn't fear of having people wanting to kill them near their homes. No one's hiding that.

I think everyone should stop looking back (what's done is done) and start looking forward. Israel still needs armed forces because a number of countries still refuse to acknowledge its existence. The Palestinians do not need armed forces as their one enemy is a country that doesn't want to have anything to do with them. If they laid down their weapons, they'd have everything they could have (realistically) obtained through armed conflicts. Liking each other can come later.

I'd like to link you to the Camp David Summit. When it came down to territories, the Palestinians were offered 100% of Gaza Strip, over 90% of the west bank, with the remaining being large Jewish settlements which would be extremely difficult to evacuate (it's just not practical). Instead it was proposed that small parts of the Negev would be given to the Palestinians, as well as control over East Jerusalem.

When it comes down to land, very few of us care that much. We're only scared of compromising our safety.

@ Gerev

I don't buy the ''human shields'' thing, I'm sorry. I actually don't buy your whole story.

We both have different opinions and I don't really care about that, that much. I just can't understand how you can say this:


Nobody? Are you kidding me? I'm sorry, but I'm reading stories here that go beyond my imagination of horror and that tells me enough that there are people feeding off of this horror. There are people who enjoy it and there are people who are proud of that.

Perhaps you live in some kind of world where there are no psychopaths or people that do things that you can't imagine doing. Maybe one day you'll wake up and see what kind of world you really live in.

This is 'my story' :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzTUxG7ni0s

I watched that video in full. I was not very impressed. The facts in it were, how should I phrase it, shaky.

First, there were 1100 deaths ,right? (not 100% sure about that by the way). About 600 of them were Hamas activists. They were firing rockets and mortars from civilian targets, as well as posting snipers in apartment buildings. The IDF decided that air-bombing said bombs was safer then sending troops in. It pains me to say it, but every country should put the lives of it's soldiers before those of enemy civilians.
considering the fact that Israel was in there for about a month, bombing all the time, I think that 500 civilian deaths is not such a high number.

Second, the school incident. The IDF has photographic evidence that there were Hamas activists shooting mortar shells from there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JNQk2gbROk...feature=related

As for the truce. The video said there were no Hamas rockets fired during it. That is simply not true. My grandmother lives in the target area, and during the "truce" , about 5 (can't remember number) Quasam rockets fell within a 100 metres of her house.

And that flag is really inapropriate, and it made me imediatley think less of whoever made the video.

As for the Operation, I beleive it was one of the more justified ones Israel ever Imbarked upon.

P.S. notice I said nothing about the Hamas war crimes.

Your argument is largely based on a semantic distortion of my words. I can't vouch for the six or seven billion people living on this planet.

Also, when you watch the video Cheesewow has posted, switch it to "high quality" and pay attention at around 1:35.

one phrase: there always going to fight. period.

The problem is that the UN made the plan in 1947 and then, the countries pretty much abandoned the Middle East to its fate. Some supported only one side and intensified the conflict this way. It's not the fault of Israel nor Palestine, they're completely lost due to the bad control maintenance by the initiators.

I have no idea why no country actually really tries to make peace over there, regarding both sides. I'm sceptical. Do they even want peace in the Middle East?

for what it's worth:


you can check the photo she's referring to at here
source : http://www.alternet.org/audits/127675/once...forever/?page=2

all emphases by me

What is a proportionate response? Something that accomplishes absolutely nothing?

The number of innocent people killed in the attack does sadden me, but I just don't know what else could've been done. Hamas, like many others, is a terrorist organization formed with only destruction in mind (if so called liberation was in mind, the Camp David Summit would've ended differently). When the Gazans elected it as their legitimate leadership, they became responsible for its actions.

You keep trying to portray Israel as a country which enjoys killing innocent people. If you do the math, however, you'll realize that the number of air strikes alone could've completely destroyed Gaza (more than once), and probably would've had Israel been, as you say, out for blood.

When you post description of burnt corpses of children it takes me to a time a coffee shop in Tel Aviv which I passed on the way home from elementary school blew up several meters from where I stood, seconds after I crossed the street. I've seen, unlike you, children lying motionless. I've experienced, unlike you, fear of taking a bus to see a friend, or even go near a semi crowded spot.
Do you know what stopped it? Yet another thing you've so gracefully mentioned. It was the checkpoints and a tremendous effort on the part of the Israeli military.
It's not that the lives of the Palestinians mean nothing to us, we see them as enemies, and I'm sorry, our lives come first.

I know that I've experienced too much and I'm too screwed up to really be objective about this whole issue, but I'm trying my best here, honestly. What can we do when the other side isn't even willing to accept our existence? How is it that we hardly have any troubles in the West Bank, where there are some Israeli settlements, but constant military conflicts in Gaza, where there isn't a single Jew?
How you honestly think people who teach their children hate and holy death through television shows featuring Mickey Mouse (and pretty much raise their own children to be brainwashed soldiers) be reasonable enough for actual dialoges?

Finally, what would you have us do? Die?
I have to admit, I sometimes flirt with that thought, wondering if it can otherwise stop.

You just don't know what else could've been done? Perhaps not take children as targets? That would be a great start. You said yourself that you experienced some of these awful things in your area, yet you wouldn't mind if other people experience the same? Do you like children growing up with no parents, because you couldn't think of any other thing 'to do' but this?


I don't know what you really refer to when you say ''Israel'', I know that there are Israeli militants that do the killing, and I do know, from what I read, that some of them kill deliberately, they ENJOY killing innocent people. It is the truth. There are psycho's out there ("brainwashed" perhaps).


Wow, how selfish you are. You actually don't care about other lives being taken?
If the author is right when she said:
If the invasion was designed to destroy Hamas, it failed miserably. Not only is Hamas still in control, but it retains much popular support.
Then your whole point makes absolutely no sense at all.

I think you're too much into the whole IsraelvsPalestina thing, so I might not understand precisely what you are trying to say here, because my way of thinking is not the same. I don't really see my country/city/religion as ''my home'' and other countries/city/religion as my ''friends'' or ''enemies''. I'd rather look at their leaders and what they really do or want. The people living in the country/city are mostly innocent and have nothing to do with it. No one is more important than another. And no one has the right, imo, to take someone's life. I'm also aware of the power the government has on it's people, ''they'' can make you think that what they are doing is for your own best, but many times this is not the case. Rarely, I think. But that's my opinion.


Okay. I can understand that. I hope you can also understand my point of view. I hate to see innocent people suffer. Don't get me wrong, those 5 dead Israeli's mentioned by the author also saddens me, it's not about the nationality, it's about who dies and for what reason.


What has happened in Gaza was not necessary at ALL. Too many innocent people died. Whatever the goal was of this attack, I really think it was not to protect you. There is a lot more going on, I believe.

Maybe I wasn't explaining myself properly, although I somehow doubt that.

They're not taking children as targets. They fire towards hostile locations.

Think about it using your head instead of your heart for a second, if you were a guerrilla organization that chants that dying for a cause makes you holy (and the same applies for casualties), wouldn't it be easier for you to fight behind women and children in a highly dense city? I mean, fighting on empty plains would obviously mean your immediate destruction.
That's what they do, and that's the result.

I'm asking how you think the Hamas can be handled.


The Israeli military does the bidding of the government.
I know many who "do the killing", in the navy, air force and army, none of them enjoys it.
Sure there are psychos out there, but our system usually manages to filter them out of responsibilities (with some highly unfortunate statistical errors). What you read is mainly propaganda based on end results and media manipulation.
But of course, you can tell me that you "don't buy that".
I can't argue with that statement.


Again with the semantic distortions.
Of course I care about other lives being taken. Wouldn't you care more if your family member died, rather than some stranger?

And yes, the invasion failed miserably, but I was referring to something prior to that.

I know they are "mostly" innocent in the sense that they didn't physically take a rifle and shot at someone.
They are, however, through elections, are responsible for their leadership's actions, especially when it was THIS obvious what their leadership stood for.
And yes, unlike you, I regard a place as my home.


Of course I understand where you're coming from, I just don't think you can comprehend who we're dealing with.
Golda Meir said so before. “We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill theirs "


There isn't. Its only goal was to protect us. It's just sad that our leaders no longer know how to do that.
They tried to do something that would lead to a very long term ceasefire, and ended up doing the opposite.

Gerev, I think that if I would continue this debate, it would end in an endless cycle. It's clear that we both think differently, we both have chosen our own sources which we find to be the truth or close to it. It's clear that you trust your government and it's clear that I don't trust mine. Heck, I don't even take the vaccins that they say you should take. All I can say is, do a lot of self-research if you want.

Just because they killed your brother (for example), doesn't mean that you should kill an innocent man's brother, just because they chose unwisely. I have family in Iran and Afghanistan, if they would die and if blood would be on the hands of Obama or Bush, I would get angry on them. I wouldn't want Iran nor Afghanistan to attack the Americans, who have nothing to do with it, or as you might say, do have something to do with it, because they chose their president.

There are a lot of sheeple out there and I'm sure that if they would be more conscious they might have chosen differently (or not at all). I don't know how the voting system is at your place, but I can say that your government or president sure ain't no angel. And the Israeli militants aren't angels as well. If I had an enemy and he would ''hide'', as you say, behind his children and woman, I would NOT shoot them. But that's me and you are you and I respect your opinion.

Look, I live this reality on the side of the border that allows me to think for myself and do my own research.
I read everything I find. Including your sott.net.
I never said I trusted my government, I'm saddened by its impotency to achieve pretty much anything.
I also don't think this issue is about killing an innocent because another one's killed. What our militants attempt to do is eliminate people who are after our lives, rather than shooting enemies just because they're enemies. That much I know.

What I do, rather than being completely dependent on the press, is talk to people I know. Make friends who can explain to me what they do and how and why they do that.
No one claims to be an angel, but it's still miles apart from having a blood lust.

At any case, thanks for your input.

Ok, I can understand that. Thank you too.

Atrocity-reprisal. When will it end.

Moses didn't put them in Israel he put them in southern Sinai desert, and anyway Arabs and Israels are actually cousins Arabs and Israelis are both sons of Abraham.

But anyway the fight is pointless there is no way the Arabs will ever back down.

When they want something they will try everything to get it...

Arabs took Israel and then christians took it arabs came back and f'ed em up.

Im sure arabs will somehow take it back after all there are more Arabs in Israel then Jews

I don't mean to bashing or something...
but my "ustadz" ever told me that the war between Israel (we also call jewish ppl) and palestine (as the muslim) won't meet it's ending until the judgement day...
The jews will fall and the moeslim will win the war... and it will happen at the end of the day...
arrrgh! IDK! i don't mean to offence, it's just my religion's belief...
I DON'T KNOW! Pleez don't hate me....
I still respecting jewish...
And i believe that human have rights to choose their own belief...

Here's how I look at it. The land belongs to whoever takes it by force. For hundreds of sexing years that's how it's always been done. So, if the Arabian states destroy Israel and take the land... Well I guess its not Israeli territory anymore, right? Then we know whose land it is, and whose land its not.

Every state you see on a map, more than likely was created from some kind of war or stealing of land. Earth wasn't created with mapped out countries. No one decided to say, "Oh my, look how beautiful Rome is, I think I'll go live there." NO. They sexing built rome with killing the candy out of people, and it's still around today. No one says, "Rome didnt exist 'x' many years ago, but my ancestors did, so Rome is mine." Therefore, I say let the two countries duke it out.

I'm not saying dont support a side, but I think as democratic people, we should support Israel.

Why the sex do you want to support people who mutilate the clitoris's of their wives and daughters? Why would you support a nation who uses child soldiers? Or convince children to blow themselves up to kill a few Israelies? Or people who discriminate against their women? Why do you want to support a country who oppress women? As a democratic women, you should be sexing pissed that this candy goes on. Would you want your clitoris mutilated?

Sorry, but I'd rather take democratic Israelites into my country rather than a country who believes its okay to mutilate vaginas and blow themselves up - regardless of their sexing religion. I dont care one believes in Jesus and the other doesnt, couldnt give two candys.

Therefore, I think as democratic people, we should support other democratic countries. Why would we want other people in the world to be oppressed? Another democratic country is one step closer to world peace (though I dont actually think its obtainable). How many democratic countries do you see with nuclear bombs, threatening to blow their damn neighbouring countries up?

"democratic Israelites" hahahaha that one was really funny!

though i don't find your signature funny at all. But I guess that's how people want to come across as a clown these days. Sure tells a lot about you.

"But I guess" that's how people want to come across these days. "But I guess" if I ever learn the english language correctly, perhaps I will be able to tell you how much of an idiot you look like.

"But I guess" if I ever grow up and stop using kitty avatars then people will think I'm very serious, and therefore I will be able to tell people that they come across as clowns.

"But I guess" since my english language is so perfect and people know I'm not a clown and very serious because of my kitten avatar, then I will be able to come into the politics forums and post something that doesnt relate to politics whatsoever - especially if I'm making fun of someone.

"But I guess" this shows a lot about you.

The arabs can attack israel but how would they?

Without the westreners getting angry?

The jews actually fought the british and ''sucide'' bombed the hotels in palestine before israel was born so in a way israel was kinda born from a terrorist PUSSY

BAHAHAHAH

If you look at the history of that region, you'll find that the British originally meant for the Transjordan to be the Jewish homeland. What the Jews ended up with was a small fraction of that, and they built a viable country from what little they had. They irrigated the land, built industry, etc. The Palestinians were demied existence in all of the rest of the Arab lands, for a purpose: without the issue of the displaced Palestinians, the whole Arab/Islamic argument accusing the Jews of that very displacement would lose it's supposed legitimacy. Then look at the Israelis, have allowed Arabs to be citizens. Any objective view would then conclude that the mass of Arabs should just grow up and accept that tiny country's right to exist, and let the Palestinians move into the comparatively HUGE lands they already have. It's so obvious, yet the world at large stomps all over the Jews. Hey, if other countries all over the world hadn't demonized the Jews and instead accepted them, there would be no need for that small country, yet there they are.
Now don't think that I'm Jewish; I'm not. And yes, I've come across some nasty Jews who think we Goyem are all lesser beings. At the same time, I understand the contributions they have given the world, especially in music and science.
While I'm at it, why don't the Arabs and Islamists just accept the fact that this is the modern world, and not some old-fashioned potential caliphate? All the haters in the Middle East do is to just egg we Westerners on, giving us the urge to just be done with the problem, and use the enhanced-radiation (neutron) bomb, and eliminate the problem once and for all. and don't doubt that, if Iran or Pakistan ever bomb a western country, that millions of Arab/Islamists will indeed be wiped out. And forget the 72 virgin thing. That's cruel to the virgins, is it not? What loving God would do such a thing?

''eliminate the problem once and for all.'' ? What loving human being would do such a thing? Violence/War etc. will never ''eliminate the problem once and for all''. Only ''cold-blooded'' idiots think like that (sorry).

No one is planning to bomb any western country. I can remember though, those days when USA dropped those two A-Bombs. Surely ''eliminated'' the problem in a nice and lovely way, didn't it? Look at Iraq now, nice way of ''eliminating'' the problem, right?

I also wonder where you get your information from.



Are you serious? Have you not seen what has happened to those poor Palestinians? How they live their lives right at this moment and because of WHO exactly? Maybe if the Israelis could deal with their huge Ego and let people live and breath for a second, things might be a LOT more different.

Those poor Palestinians. They vote in Hamas, which launched thousands of rockets into Israel. I suppose the Jews are to just do as they did when the nazis herded them into gas chambers. What about the term, "Never again" do you not understand? Why don't the rest of the Arab countries just accept the existence of Israel, give the Palestinians land in their own countries? I'll tell you why: The governments of those countries would no longer have the excuse of the Evil Jews to justify their dictatorships.
Oh, those poor Palestinians. You have fallen hook line and sinker for the Arab propaganda. And why is it that the "brave" Arabs hide amongst the civilians? I'll tell you why: propaganda value, to fool YOU and those like you into feeling sorry for the children. Why don't you complain about their "education" of those kids, telling them that strapping a bomb to themselves will send them to heaven? Why can't you "useful idiots" just look at the situation, OBJECTIVELY? Damn those masters of hell on Earth, the truly evil killers of women and children, the Hamas and the Hisbollah! And YOU most of all, who fall for their blatant lies.
BTW, regarding the two atom bombs in Japan: Do you understand history? What if we hadn't done that? Truth is, they would have had millions MORE dead, along with at least 500,000 American dead, INCLUDING MY FATHER. Don't you tell ME ANYTHING about those bombs. I likely would have never been born, along with most of a million others, whose fathers would have died invading the Home Islands. It's easy for you to judge. All you know is the crap they teach you in school, how America is evil, Israel is evil, and our REAL enemies are good!. Stalin had a name for you, and I'll repeat it: Useful Idiot. You'd back the devil, if he hated America and Israel.
Damn all you so-called "liberals, who apologize for the worst monsters on Earth, so long as they hate us. Liberal my ass. Fascist is more like it. American "liberals" are everything BUT.
Why don't YOU move to one of those places, such as Gaza, West Bank, Venezuela, N. Korea, whatever, and learn for yourself why I and many other feel this way. Grow up.

they should fight to the death!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
they should bomb each other!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DLB:
Those poor Palestinians. They vote in Hamas, which launched thousands of rockets into Israel.

launched thousands of rockets???? Look at Israel right now and look at Palestina right now, do you see a difference? Also look at which of the two gets a LOT of support from other countries and which doesn't.

DLB:
I suppose the Jews are to just do as they did when the nazis herded them into gas chambers.

???

DLB:
What about the term, "Never again" do you not understand? Why don't the rest of the Arab countries just accept the existence of Israel, give the Palestinians land in their own countries? I'll tell you why: The governments of those countries would no longer have the excuse of the Evil Jews to justify their dictatorships.

Not all jews are evil, not all israelis are evil, but those on top who are making the decisions are! Every man who does research in this case objectively will know this.

DLB:
Oh, those poor Palestinians. You have fallen hook line and sinker for the Arab propaganda. And why is it that the "brave" Arabs hide amongst the civilians?

You are too concentrated on Arabs vs Jews. Sinker for the Arab propaganda??? I'm sorry, but if I know that children are watching their parents die before their eyes because of some evil son of a bitch decided to drop a bomb there, then DAMN right I'm not going ''to understand'' that kind of decision. Do you? For real??? Every human being with a heart and a conscience KNOWS that that is wrong. You don't need newspapers to tell you whether that is right or wrong. Your heart should tell you that it's wrong. IT'S WRONG TO TAKE ANYONE'S LIFE. Especially INNOCENT people. You probably forgot the HUNDREDS of CHILDREN who DIED because of the attacks. I can throw you thousands of articles to PROOF to you that this is the case. But as I always say, everyone must put their own effort in their own research if they care to SEE Objective REALITY. BTW: there are no ''brave'' Arabs hiding amongst the civilians or ''using them as shields''. SIGH And suppose that they are, does it make up for schools being bombed, for hundreds of children being killed? Families being destroyed? Souls being raped? A few head shots here and there? Did you forget about that T-Shirt that some Israeli soldiers wore? A picture of a pregnant woman with a text beneath saying ''1 shot 2 kills''? Are you serious?
Apparently they enjoy killing?

So much for the ''hiding'' excuse.


WHAT THE HELL??? Do you have a brother? Do you have a young nephew? Niece? How would you feel if one of them were in Gaza on the moment they dropped the bombs? Would you still be talking like that?


Who did that?? What about you being blinded by propaganda? That possibility is nonexistent?


Ironic!


The TRULY evil killers of women and children? HUH???? So dropping bombs on women/children/men is OKAY if the JEWS are doing it????


There is always another way. Always. There is No need to drop A-Bombs on innocent people. I really can't understand at all how such a decision could ever be okay. It's like deciding who may die and who may not. Sigh

Try to view things from different perspectives. What if your father was in Japan that day? What if the ones you love were in Japan that day? Would it still be okay? Would you still ask me if I understand history? Come on, DLB, how does anyone have the right to decide who MUST ''sacrifice'' themselves for the rest (assuming you are right). I will never accept that kind of decision. If you can, then that is your decision. I just wonder if you´ll still think the same if some other country would think about bombing the city you currently live in ´´for the greater good´´. Would you sacrifice yourself for all or would your family sacrifice for all because those damned leaders are so cold-blooded they can't think of other ways? Oh - I forgot, you may not choose. You're going to die and there's nothing you can do about it.

But let's say that somehow you survive the event. Everyone you knew and love is dead. After some years, as you have developed some form of cancer because of the radiation and you just can't forget about all those people you knew who died a horrible death, you walk into a cafe and you tell others that this is not right, what happened is not fair. Someone will walk up to you, look in your eyes, say that he's sorry and tells you that ''well if you understand history, you will know that there were no other way''. Will you take that? Will you say ''yes you're right''? Or will you say "Hell NO, there is always another way''?

If ´´the leaders behind the curtains´´ had a heart , they would have never done such a thing.
They don't care sh't about innocent lives.


I'm sorry. but I don't put everyone in some kind of category. But if you're talking about governments, then yes, the true evils are Israel, USA, UK....


Let me draw you a picture. You are in Gaza, playing with your best friend. You're eight years old. Suddenly you hear a sound and both of you stop playing and look at each other, trying to find words to explain the sound. Before you know it, you start running. Cause a gut feeling says that something awful is going to happen. While you're running as if your life depends on it you hear a loud explosion, people screaming everywhere. You close your eyes and cover your ears. You open your eyes and suddenly you see your dad, whose face is covered in blood, not only his face, but his clothes are red too. He grabs you and while he gasps for breath he tells you that everything is going to be okay and that he's going to take you home. As you are laying in his arms, you look around at all the people. Chaos. Dead bodies. Blood. People crying. People screaming. Smoke everywhere.
Will the kid survive? Will the father survive? What happened to the boy's best friend? And if they do survive, how will they ever heal themselves from this? And what about their homes? Do they have a chance to live another day?

Please. Don't tell me that that is okay. That is NOT okay. That is the work of the devil. Don't think always with your intellect, which is poisoned by the daily news, forget about Jews and forget about Arabs for a second and think about this with your heart. That's all I can say.

I would also like to ask you to watch this video as it might give you a different look to all of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p86BPM1GV8M&feature=fvw

Oh Pookie. You don't seem to understand. You quote me, then ignore what I say. You saw the Hamas pamphlet, showing the dead little girl. Don't you see what they are doing? Do you understand why it is that the Israelis attack? Did the Hamas tell you about the IDF phoning targeted areas, warning them to get out? Do you not understand that they give the Palestinians plenty of warnings, before they attack, other than cars carrying known terrorists?
You are a pacifist, obviously. Pacifists without fail will back the worst regimes, and turn on their own. I'm afraid you've done exactly that. You turn on your own in some kind of self-loathing guilt trip.
You totally reject my statement that the Arabs could have easily assimilated these people into their countries. Why won't they take them in? There is only one reason: If there were no Palestinian "problem," those countries would then have to explain to their own people, especially the Syrians, why they maintain dictatorships. They NEED an enemy. Israel gives them an excuse. Without an Israel, there would be no further excuse to hold selfishly to their lifetime powers over their own people.
Do you know the story behind the Arab government's hatred of the Jews? Could it possibly be their alliances with Hitler's Nazis? Check it out.
Another thing: You just brushed aside my "Never again" statement. In Europe, the Jews couldn't believe that the Nazis could be so heartless and murderous as to wipe out millions of "lesser" beings. After the war, The Jews had learned more than one lesson. One was that, during the war, NO ONE COUNTRY ANYWHERE would take them in, and left them at the Nazi's mercies. Another lesson learned: FIGHT. Never be sheep to the slaughter.
Concerning the two atom bombs dropped on Japan: If Truman had not used them, the Japanese would have lost MILLIONS MORE, fighting like fanatics for the emperor. He ended the war. He knew what was in store. And, after that war, the Japanese were shocked that the Americans didn't do what their army would have done, as they had done in China. To this day, the Chinese HATE the Japanese. The Japanese do not hate us. Wonder why that is? Hmmm. Could it be that it's because we helped them rebuild, and set up a decent government there? Same as in West Germany. Yes, we Americans are certainly cruel beasts. When we win a war against our enemies, we don't enslave them; we do exactly the opposite of what they expect. NO GOOD DEED WILL GO UNPUNISHED, by those like YOU.
You no doubt are a leftist. I see all the signs. You're living in a dream world of bunny rabbits and hamsters. Golly Gee, why don't we all sing, "Kumbaya?" Yes! the evil dictators and murderers will come running to us, talking of peace, brotherhood, etc. In reality, they laugh at us, when we follow the path you wish us to take. Look at us now. Obama wants to talk. they laugh, as they build their arms.
Have you no concept of history as it IS, not as your teachers teach, as they want you to believe?
Again, I invite you to give up your comfortable life, wherever it is, and move to Gaza. You'll find that any opposition to Hamas will be met with cruelty, including having your head cut off.
Byebye now. Kumbaya!

DLB
Oh Pookie. You don't seem to understand. You quote me, then ignore what I say. You saw the Hamas pamphlet, showing the dead little girl.

Then what exactly did I misunderstand? I have never said that Hamas are the good guys, not at all. I just don't agree that innocent Palestinians should die because of all of it. And if you view the signs well and objectively, you will see that Israel's way of attacking Palestina just can't be accepted, do you understand why?

DLB]
Don't you see what they are doing? Do you understand why it is that the Israelis attack? Did the Hamas tell you about the IDF phoning targeted areas, warning them to get out? Do you not understand that they give the Palestinians plenty of warnings, before they attack, other than cars carrying known terrorists?

What???? plenty of warnings? No sir. Btw, if you wanna find some true terrorists, research the people in your government.

DLB
You are a pacifist, obviously.

Or simply human, maybe.

DLB
Pacifists without fail will back the worst regimes, and turn on their own. I'm afraid you've done exactly that. You turn on your own in some kind of self-loathing guilt trip.

Excuse me?



Whatever you think is the history on Palestina and Israel or whatever connections you see, I really don't care and I don't care atm where you get this info from. What I care about is why you think that EVEN if the above is all true it gives you enough reason to think that innocent people should die?



WTF? ''Ye, let's kill all the children, cuz we need to FIGHT this time'',
I totally get you now DLB.



No, you see, that is A possibility. If that were true, there wouldn't be much debates going on, don't you think?



Why do you think so much in ''enemies'' and ''friends'' ? Look at yourself talking like this. You're a human being, man. We all are, why do you see so much difference in the world? And you think that you belong to a group? To ''the americans''? It's sad really. You don't belong to any group, there is no ''we americans'', there is only you. If your government does something, they're doing it, not you. You're just a puppet in the game: they lie to you to get your vote (and if they don't they'll make sure that they get it anyways), to get your support and etc. They just want you to live your life and that you won't ask any questions.
They give wonderful speeches on how ''We Americans will bring Peace and Change'', and when you look at the reality, all you see is nothing but peace and change, all you see is dead bodies, more innocent people dying and blood all over the place.

And you think that the Americans are heroes and that they're going to save us all. No. That's not how it works, I wish it would work like that, but it doesn't. The government doesn't care about the soldiers in Afg/Iraq or anywhere. They all care about themselves, I can't say this in any other way. It's the truth.
If they decide something, it's not because they want to make our lives better or the lives of others, they do it because they want something for themselves. Be it feeding their ego, more power, reduce the population or whatever. There is no one in your government who cares about your life.

But you're so blinded that you think so much in groups, the ''Japanese'', the ''Chinese'', the ''Arabs'', the ''Jews'', come on DLB. You should know that that is not the case. There are only small groups in every country that make the decisions for all of us.
They don't make decisions because they want to save YOUR ass, they make decisions because they wanna save their own asses, do you see the difference? Do you see now that you belong to no group? Their decisions are not necessarily ''our'' decisions, just because we were born in the same country or live in the same country.

That's why not all Jews are bad, and not all Palestinians are bad, we're humans, dude. You can't put us in boxes and put a label on us, that's not how it works. Just because I think killing is wrong, doesn't mean I'm a ''pacifist''. So please, don't label me, yourself or anyone else. Because if you do, you'll make huge assumptions.

Basically, what I'm saying is: we are all born on Earth in the lives we're living in now. Our governments want us to think that other humans are our enemies and others are our friends and that we and our friends have the right to kill and our enemies don't. Our friends (and we of course) may play with weapons, our enemies may not.
And we have to agree with our governments, because they make us think that they are right, cause it's written all over the newspapers how right our government is and how wrong ''our enemies'' are. But is it truly like that, in reality? Do the governments really have our back? Or do they just laugh at us when the lights go out?

You say that the Chinese hate the Japanese, well that might be true, but that doesn't mean that all Chinese do, you see? Just because ''America'' hates ''Iran'' doesn't mean all Americans have to or do? Though, the government would love if you do hate Iran, so that's why they like you in their group of ''We Americans''.
If you would think less about being an American in a way that the government wants you to think like, and think more like being a human being, homo sapiens or an Earthling, then there might be a bit more passion in you or concern for other people's lives and of course a lot more objectivity.

Again, don't follow the false footsteps being made by your government, but go and search for the pieces yourself and start making your own footsteps.



Right. Sigh



Since when did I say I believe in a world of bunny rabbits and such? No. I believe we're living in a world, that gets darker by the day. And you really know who the bad guys are? Well, it's those people on top who have no conscious.

The people who are living every day life, who have a good heart (and I think you have a good heart as well don't get me wrong), those people, they are the good ones. And as long as they don't go out and say ''Enough'', I'm not sure what's gonna happen.

But I guess, If you want to see change in the world, you must be that change first.

Please don't assume my path that I wish for you to take. Let me give you an example of those guys who are ''building their arms'': HEY guys it's ISRAEL!!! And Cuz they are our Friends, It's TOTALLY OKAY that they are developing and having cool and new WEAPONS that could KILL HUNDREDS and THOUSANDS of INNOCENT PEOPLE!

Ohhh and there is so much more DLB

These kind of facts just can't be read in your newspapers.
All they show are lies about how Iran is having this nuclear thing going on when they have 0% proof.

Someone once said: Repeat a Lie Enough Times and It Will Be Believed



Yes that could be true, I never said I support Hamas you know. I just disagree heavily on how Israel attack(ed) Palestina and kill(ed) hundreds of innocent people. And how they enjoy(ed) doing so.

I'm sure you won't agree and write a whole story on what you think history is all about. Well I'm not interested in that and I'm sure you're not interested in what I have to say, so do you still want to continue this or not?

Ok. Lets have it your way. Israel must be wiped off the map. The Palestinians must rule over the Jews.Then let's see how your loving Palestinians work it out. When the world discovers the atrocities they visit upon the Jews, will you stand up for the Palestinians?
Do you actually believe that the human monsters will suddenly become "nice?"
You are hopelessly naive.

No, that is not my way. My way is to get rid of those psychopathic leaders and people in Israel and in all other countries who are responsible for killing thousands and millions of innocent lives.

As I said before, not all Israelis are horrible, you can't label them all as the one and the same. And ''Israel must be wiped off the map'' is translated WRONGLY from what was said originally. To make things sound dramatic. If you are curious to what he truly said, then go out and find out. But no, you won't, cause what the TV says and what the Newspapers say, is 100% true. (for those who are reading this as well: The media lies. Go figure and you'll know)

I hope you enjoy eating your grass, as long as you can.



The Palestinians must rule over nothing!! They must rule over their own lives. That is enough for me. There shouldn't be anyone on this planet who may decide who's lives they may destroy and who's lives they may take. Only oneself may decide if one wants to die or not. Not someone else. Do you now see my point? See the Palestinian little boy who is playing outside as the little Jew in the old days, and see the Israeli soldier who shoots a bullet right between the boy's eyes as the Nazi in the old days.



The atrocities they visit upon the Jews? Maybe you should check on Gaza right now and view the ''atrocities the psychopathic Israeli soldiers visited upon the hundreds of innocent people''.
I will ALWAYS stand up for the people. Never for the psychopathic leaders/people. That's why I cannot say ALL JEWS are bad or good. Only the leaders and those in the government are bad (some might not be, but that's another story), others are not (mostly).
That's why I can't label people as a group, as you do. Apparently you haven't studied psychology enough to know that not all people think in the same way.



Human monsters? Oh, you do make me laugh a little. You're looking in the wrong way to find human monsters.

You are hopelessly naive DLB, To think that evil is out there, when it is right in front of your nose.

What if your government makes a ''wrong'' decision that will lead to the destruction of your life and those you love? Will you then still stand up for your government? Or are you then totally dead to do so?

What if one day the whole world finds out that Israel was behind the attack on the WTC, will you then still support the Israeli government like you do now? What if you find out that Al-Q does not exist at all? And that Osama is dead for years? Oh, will it be the darkest day of all, knowing all these lies that were being spread by your own loving government.

Jews kill jews, Americans kill americans, that's why I don't label people as a group. Because a group stands together, but these guys, no, they will turn to each other if there is something to win. It's like this everywhere.

Truth is, you show so much love for the Israelis, when instead, five of them were having fun watching and videotaping the disaster on 9/11. Apparently they don't love you the same way you love them.

You actually believe the Israelis did 9/11. A conspiracy theory nut.. Is it not at all possible that a group of mostly Saudi nationals hijacked the planes and crashed them into the buildings?
Another point; the Palestinians supposedly want their own state. What you won't accept is their refusal to allow Israel to co-exist with them.
You call me naive. I have been reading history all my life, more books than I can count, and one fact stands out: that within our own societies are those who, usually the "pacifists" back our enemies. Somehow, if we disarm, talk nice to the dictators, etc, that they will suddenly see the light and disarm, and we can all live as one.
You have no concept of propaganda from the supposed downtrodden peoples.
The Palestinians have refused offers of peace with Israel, time and time again. Truth is, the Arabs and Iranians CANNOT have peace with Israel. It takes away their dread enemy, therefore ruining their justification for dictatorships.
Dictators always require external enemies, to justify sacrifice on the part of their peoples, and one of the most glaring examples was Yassir Arafat.
Again, Israel has made concession after concession, yet the rockets still are launched into their country.
The Palestinians pull on your naive heartstrings, showing you pictures of dead and wounded children, and tell you stories of the mean Israeli atrocities. Yet they hide their weapons among children and women. They hide behind the helpless, forcing the Israelis to fight with one hand tied behind their backs.
Arguing with such as you is like arguing with the kitchen table. You are full of the Western affliction of guilt-tripping and blindness to your favored group.
This will be the last I say to you. It is hopeless. To you, 2+2=3.674834.
As I said before, you should move to Gaza, and learn the true nature of Hamas. Don't come crying to us, when you find the truth.
Have a nice trip.

No it is not possible, because the signs and proof say something else. The case is much more complex and different parties are involved.
But you are not interested in that, so why bother? Research yourself.
How can you trust others to do the research for you?



You can read as many books as you want, but as long as you don't research YOURSELF and CHECK everything you read, you are just one of those people who 'reads thousands of books', and that's just it.



No. One fact stands out: psychopaths exist and they don't bother taking peoples lives. Check Bush. Check Cheney. Oh, and there is so much more.



Disarm and talk nice? That is not at all what I'm talking about. I'm talking about trying to understand the situation on this planet and how things are.
You are still living in the illusion that our leaders are trying to make things better for us.
There is no strategy to make things better, there is only strategy to feed their greed. Do you not understand?



Huh?? The only Truth I see right now, is that you are incapable of seeing the Truth.



You are still missing the whole point. Read my previous posts if interested, I'm not going to repeat myself.



They don't pull anything. It's my heart that pulls when I see that. That is the TRUTH. Why are you hiding away from it?

What if it was your father on those pictures? Would it matter then? I guess it won't matter to you. You don't care about others, do you? All you care about are your sad thoughts on how society works and what you think you know about history. Lives don't mean nothing to you, do they? They are ''merely'' pictures, with an agenda right? The pictures have nothing to tell, right? It doesn't matter if a young kid gets ripped in pieces, does it? It doesn't matter if your father would be blown into pieces by an Israeli soldier, does it? All that matters is that the Israeli soldiers have the right to kill.
And Why? Because they claim that there was an evil Arab standing next to your dad.

Oh and the soldier was right though, they found the incomplete body of the Arab he was talking about. Was it worth it though? Was it worth it you losing your father? I guess it was.



May I take my words back of thinking that you have a heart at all? You are talking with your eyes and ears shut. Or do you have an agenda? To prevent those who seek the truth?

They don't hide their weapons among children and women. They don't hide behind the helpless. All those claims are based on their OWN imagination. There is no solid proof that that is what they are doing.

Don't you see that that is the max excuse of all times? Drop a bomb on a SCHOOL (did you read that I said: school?) and then claim that there were '' dangerous Arabs'' in there, that they were ''forced'' to drop a bomb? Just a few children right? Who cares? They are just Palestinians? Oh God, where did you leave your soul at?

And even if there were one or two Hamas fighters near the school or in it, there is NO NEED TO KILL ALL THOSE INNOCENT PEOPLE. You truly have NO heart whatsoever, if you think that such an act is alright.

Maybe we need to read some facts and figures? : http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?id=ENGMDE150212009



I'm not for Hamas, I'm not for the Israeli soldiers or government, I'm only for the people.

You don't know what your and other governments are capable of doing. But maybe, one day, when you are in the middle of it all, maybe that day, you'll know.

And maybe that day, you will have your soul back.

I've noticed that many of my quotes got your response, "??"
What I see here is someone who discounts studying books over the years, and instead depends on videos, propaganda and the like.
You obviously consider the knowledge of history irrelevant. "Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it." Santanaya.
Are you aware of Neville Chamberlain? Look it up. I'm not going to give you the answer to what he did that launched WWII.
What is your answer to the Israel/Palestinian problem? What should each side do? I want your answer to be practical and doable, IN THE CONTEXT OF REALITY AND THE FACTS.
You are obviously anti- Israeli. and you call yourself a Jew.
I am not Jewish.
I invite you to read a pair of books, based upon facts. First, read "The Winds of War," then "War and Remembrance," both by Herman Woulk. That is, if you are capable of the attention span it takes to read them.
The current situation dates back to the end of WWI.
Also, look up the Grand Mufti of Jeruselem, circa the 30's and 40's. Learn that he (Palestinian) was allied with Adolf Hitler, and actually formed an SS division.
I know; these things are inconvenient to your comprehension. You feel that a people with primitive weapons can't hurt a people with sophisticated weapons.
And for cryin out loud don't give me that total bullcrap about Israel or Bush causing 9/11.You can't see the truth thru your hatred of Israel and the US. Yes I said hatred. you just can't admit it. If it were in fact a conspiracy, it would be impossible to keep the secret. A secret, known by more than one person cannot be kept secret. And there were thousands of "actors." Sure. I believe you, and I'm going to buy a used car from your kind of people. I'll need a mechanic and lots of money to ensure that it runs.
Again I SUGGEST YOU MOVE TO GAZA, AND SPEAK YOUR PACIFIST MIND. Make sure you've bought life insurance that will cover political murder and your burial expenses.
One more thing: Have you even asked the average, and I mean AVERAGE Israeli their opinions regarding the "Palestinas" (Doesn't "Palestina" sound nice? More feminine and peacenik sounding, huh?)
I DO NOT ADVOCATE THE KILLING OF THEIR CHILDREN. I DO ADVOCATE THAT THE "PALESTINAS" STOP TEACHING THEIR VULNERABLE KIDS HATRED TOWARD THOSE WHO COULD BE THE BEST OF FRIENDS.
And you also just threw away the fact that the men DO stash weapons in schools, mosques, and the like. Makes the Jews look bad, when they attack the stockpiles of weapons.
Actually, I don't expect you to understand. I do not expect you to see things thru objective eyes. You have already made your decision. Again, I've noted that when I state something you can't argue with, you just type, "??" Duh I didn't know that. Actually you don't want to face it.
I do have a heart. I'm just not gullible. Reality sucks. Learn to live with reality, or it will bite you.
BTW, what country are you living in? Just curious.
TTFN

DLB
I've noticed that many of my quotes got your response, "??"
What I see here is someone who discounts studying books over the years, and instead depends on videos, propaganda and the like.

When did I say that I discount studying books? Perhaps we both interpret the word ''studying'' differently?

DLB
You obviously consider the knowledge of history irrelevant. "Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it." Santanaya.

Again, the Irony is really interesting. No, I don't consider the knowledge of history irrelevant. I consider YOUR MISUNDERSTANDING/interpretation of history irrelevant. There is quite a difference in that, don't you think?

DLB
Are you aware of Neville Chamberlain? Look it up. I'm not going to give you the answer to what he did that launched WWII.
What is your answer to the Israel/Palestinian problem? What should each side do? I want your answer to be practical and doable, IN THE CONTEXT OF REALITY AND THE FACTS.

I've already told you what I think should happen, but you're not really paying attention.
Though, we can debate here for hours and days and we can think about our solutions, but the fact is that things are the way they are.
Btw: no one is really trying to find ''an answer to the problem'', they are only making the problem worse, perhaps on purpose.

DLB
You are obviously anti- Israeli. and you call yourself a Jew.

I'm not anti-Israeli. I am not anti anything. And I don't call myself a Jew. Maybe you should stop putting labels on people? I just think that killing innocent people is wrong, is that really so hard to UNDERSTAND, without putting a label on me? Geez!

DLB
I am not Jewish.

Should that info be relevant here? Why are you saying that?

DLB
I invite you to read a pair of books, based upon facts. First, read "The Winds of War," then "War and Remembrance," both by Herman Woulk. That is, if you are capable of the attention span it takes to read them.

I have a load of other books that I need to read first. Maybe when I'm done with those, I will start reading yours.



I feel that?? Dude. Look up the facts and see that people with primitive weapons CAN hurt, but not AS MUCH AS those with sophisticated weapons. I don't need your ''data'' from your books to know such a thing!



Hatred???? No, there is no hatred. Not in the way you think.



It is impossible to keep such a secret, that's why it is leaking and more and more people are finding out. So maybe one day you will find out too.



If you like the label thing, is it okay if I call you ''a Sheep person'' then?



Why would I want to ask the average Israeli about their opinions regarding the Palestinians?



I wonder where you got that ''teaching their vulnerable kids hatred toward those'' from. And btw, I would be pretty pissed on ''those'' if I know that ''they'' killed my grandparents and so forth. Be the best of friends? Oh, god, and you supposedly have studied history? Give me a break, seriously.
Perhaps you didn't understand: Israeli soldiers enjoyed killing innocent people.

Not really the kind of friends you'd want.



And your proof is where exactly, perhaps I missed it? And even if they stash weapons in schools, there is no reason to kill children for that.



I type ?? because I find it unbelievable that someone can write something like that, that it just silences me, BTW, I've only responded once with two question marks. Your comparison was so irrelevant that I just couldn't believe what I was reading and didn't know what to say other than just being amazed.Therefore ''??'' = no comment.



Jesus said: Be in this world, but not of it.

Let's say that I'm from Europe.

I hate to intrude but I find it disturbing that you make that remark despite the fact I've already showed you the following:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/122365
If you dislike the source, I've seen it in dozen different websites, it's just the first one I've come across while searching.
That's just one example, by the way.

Carry on.