"a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience."

-Dictionary.com

I am personally an Agnostic. Share your feelings on this religious view.

Thank you for finally creating that thread. I also am an agnostic - by extension, though. On all counts, I'm a pyrrhonist, and I don't see why, for one thing, I'd suddenly change and have a firm belief.

God might exist, it might not, but in both cases we can't know directly since we do not possess an indubitable sense. Therefore, I just choose not to care.

Well...most atheists are agnostic, but defacto agnostic. Like if you read The God Delusion, Dawkins says he's agnostic, but to the extent that he's agnostic about pixies and fairies. You can't disprove them, but your pretty sure they don't exist. This is what I go by,

I would consider myself Agnostic as well, however I tend not to get caught up in any sort of firm belief.

Atheism and Agnosticism are completely different. Atheists believe that there is NO god, and Agnostics see the existence of god as something that is a possibility yet too broad an idea for anyone to know for sure.

just read the book. youll get what im talking about

The author isn't an absolute God. He doesn't dictate what words mean.

Agnosticism, from the greek exclusion prefix a- and gnosco (latin) verb: to know. Literal meaning "I don't know"
Atheism, from the greek exclusion prefix a-, and theos (greek) noun: god. No god.

It's the belief I really feel closest too, becuse I often get mixed feelings about religious views. Although, I always feel safest in the hands of agnosticism.

Although I'm Christian, I can understand the views of an agnostic. Because you can never really know, can you?

Exactly. That is what I mean. THere is no such thing as a Atheist...yet. (well there are but they cannot prove anything). Many atheists (such as myself) are de facto agnostic. Were pretty positive that there is no god (atheist) but are not stupid enough to make such a claim with so little support. That's where the agnostic part comes in. We are unsure, but base our lives based off an athesitic viewpoint.

Awhile back, I'd never heard of Agnosticism, and always called myself Atheist, but a friend told me about it and I realized I fit much better into Agnosticism than I do Atheism. My favorite Agnostic quote would have to be:
"I cannot know whether God exists or not, and neither can you."
I pretty much say that every time a Christian friend states his/her beliefs as a fact.

Frankly, I'd have to disagree with that. The idea of a creator is viable, as, oddly enough, all of the universe behaves in the same way. If the universe was disorganized chaos, I'd heartily agree with the statement, but it is somewhat organized.
As such, I'm not even positive about the belief that there isn't a god.

The same thing happened to me actually.

Just because you're not 100% sure of something doesn't mean you can't believe in it.

The way I see it, everybody is agnostic. Most people tend to lean towards one viewpoint or another, but it isn't possible for someone to believe in something with 100% certainty (though, of course, many religious people wouldn't admit this).

I don't think you really see the point.
Agnostics believe that many things, such as the existence of God, is something that can NEVER be known by humans. Therefor, why not just accept that it is a possibility and move on with your life. I think that saying there IS or there IS NOT a god is ignorant, because we can never know for sure.

I had made a wonderful post detailing all possibilities a long while ago, and deduced that, even if God was amongst us, we wouldn't notice.
So, ultimately, the best thing is indeed to remain agnostic. This doesn't just apply to religion, btw; science is in the same basket, as science is just a model for the world.

I believe this is true, even when I was a Christian I would still find myself questioning the existence of God. You can never know for sure, but I just took the evidence I had at the time and found myself at the conclusion that God must exist.

Now I find myself leaning more towards agnosticism, although I often more find myself still believing that there is a creator or God. I just don't believe in organised religion.

As of now it is good to be agnostic as we cannot prove or disprove. We never know what we could come up with in the future to disprove or prove god. Anything is possible.

to quote stephen colbert

agnostics are atheists witout balls

jk jk

wtf...

I do think it's a bit wishy-washy.

But eh. Who am I to judge? Not God, that's for certain.

That has to be a lie.

So I have to do a 5 minute speech in English and I decided to do mine on Agnosticism, anyone care to give me some good persuasive/informative points?

Easy read and quite informing, read the God Delusion. It references agnosticism nea the start of the book many times. It's a good book. Not the only one though.

What I think is silly about religion is that its usually referred to on your views on God. Whether or not he exists, how he was involved in certain stories etc.. I don't know much about Christianity or really any other religion so excuse me if my words aren't correct or if I offend you. I think that when people talk about religion, they should focus on the other aspects of it. The thought of an afterlife or reincarnation. Personally, I choose to have no religion but when socializing/public gatherings I call myself Agnostic. Anyways, I think that if everyone just let people believe what they want to believe and didn't try to change their mind or argue, we'd all get along (and not saying that that's going on here, just in general).

I'm thinking that as science gets more advanced in the next couple hundred years, more and more discoveries will happen, leading to more and more people questioning the existence of a god; which could possibly end up dramatically increasing the population of Agnostics/Atheists. Just a thought though.

yeah that is so true.

A significant majority of studies that examined the relationship between intellect and religious tendencies have already found that they are inversely related.

no, they are not. Atheists do not believe in God or the greater beyond, while Agnostics simply recognize the fact that they cannot know ('gnostic' stemming from "to know").

i too am agnostic. I tend to believe there is some sort of spiritual afterlife that is not and CAN NOT be defined by religion, since there is no way to ever know. i recognize that there is no proof, and accept the fact that i will never truly know.

Yes, atheists are agnostic by default. Lack of belief in god(s) does not mean belief in the lack of god(s) - there is a distinct difference.

You're falling victim to the fallacy of composition just like so many other people these days - and it's giving atheism a bad name. The fact that some atheists are willing to put forth the assertion that "there is no god, anywhere, period" does not mean it is suddenly a tenet of atheism.

Many people who claim to be agnostic only do so because they misunderstand the definition of atheism

I'm tired of this crap.

Agnosticism and atheism each have multiple meanings. It's all about knowledge and belief.

Agnosticism can be defined one way as not knowing the existence of a God or gods, therefore defining the entire human population as agnostic because no one on Earth currently truly knows.

Theism/Deism, Agnosticism, and Atheism all refer to beliefs. Theists believe in God or religion, agnostics basically have no belief, they believe God is possible but cannot be proven or disproved, and atheists believe there is no God/gods.

So I would consider myself an agnostic agnostic, I don't know if God exists (no one truly does), so I don't bother believing anything.

I win the thread...

Wrong.


More wrong, and subtract extra points for pretentiousness...

That is somewhat correct,

Agnostic--- The cause of everything/God is unknown.
Atheism--- No God/ there is no supreme being.

My point--- not default (not the same thing).

But I don't exactly know Atheism, or the Agnostic religion.

From what I know, I personally have my own view on religion, my view is quite different from others, but not necessarily Agnostic.


I agree, my view is that there is no proof, and most likely never will be.

I am not wrong. Non-belief in God/gods is a definition of atheism and is usually the one referred to.

I did win the thread.

Wrong. Everyone is born atheist and it simply means lack of belief in god(s).

There are atheists who assert that there is no god, but that is not part of the definition of atheism.



Uh... what? This is another example of definitions being completely misconstrued. Atheism and Agnosticism are NOT religions or belief systems - they aren't even philosophies by default.



Lack of belief is entirely different from belief in a lack thereof - you don't understand which is which.

Atheism has no one definition.

----

I understand full well the difference. What I'm saying is they are both definitions of atheism (and that belief in a lack thereof is more common). The same way Theism has different definitions.

Atheism only has one definition: Lack of belief in god(s).

Anything more is a worldview, philosophy, theory, etc. held by someone who is atheist, but not part of the definition. Like I mentioned to someone else before, don't fall for the fallacy of composition.

"Atheism, as an explicit position, can be either the affirmation of the nonexistence of gods, or the rejection of theism. It is also defined more broadly as an absence of belief in deities, or nontheism." -Wikipedia on atheism. The atheism article on wikipedia has a bronze star in the corner, deeming it one of wikipedia's finest articles. It's also locked from editing.

It has no one definition.

Wtf, did you read what you just posted? Everything you said was untrue. Look at the definition.

Everything I said was untrue, huh? So years of being agnostic and hour long discussions with professors of religion makes me a nutjob?

I know exactly what I'm talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism

You don't even have to read past the table of contents.

Agnosticism means not knowing the existence of God, as well as the belief that He may or may not exist.

Yes but someone who is say, Christian, isn't going to say they don't know if god exists or not, they will say he DOES. Obviously if you are an agnostic you are going to believe that no one really knows.

You are the most realistic christian I've ever met. You made my day.

correction:
He might not...

I was like you once. I never really believed in god... he just didn't seem realistic to me. I'm agnostic now. I'd just like to add that I'm very happy about the open mindedness of religious people on this thread.

You're referring to atheism as a belief system or a philosophical position, in which case it cannot be "defined" only "explained." I'm referring to it as a single term, in which case it strictly means lack of belief in god(s).

Anything further than that is just a generalization - which seems absurd to me given the fact that atheism in it's most basic form makes no assertions whatsoever.

OMG I was reading this entire thread just WAITING for someone to say this! Agnosticism and Atheism are NOT religions. They are just...a name to give to people who don't have a belief system.

I was baptised when I was four months old, and have never practiced it. I do consider myself agnostic. I am entirely indifferent to all religious beliefs. I don't care enough to argue, because there is no proof.

well, agnostics seem like the people who always go for the facts (and thats confusing to mw sometimes.) but i dont care what other people believe in. even if they dont believe in anything. and what do you think happens when you die if you are agnostic?

Wat the fuck !

Dunno.


Please don't post irrelevant and meaningless things in P&R.
And size down your sig.