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imupsidedownsometimes
QUOTE
Vanilla, Kauai Kolada and Twista lime. Flavored cigarettes and clove cigarettes will no longer be sold in the United States after September. The ban does not include menthols or flavored cigars...for now.

The ban is part of a new law signed by President Obama in June. Called the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act, the law gives the Food and Drug Administration authority to regulate tobacco. However, the agency can't ban tobacco and nicotine outright.

Starting at the end of the month, flavored cigarettes and clove cigarettes will be illegal in this country. The FDA says those products attract and appeal to children and teenagers. The new ban is 'sparking' mixed emotions among residents.

"I think it's ridiculous. That's not fair. That's like banning light cigarettes. People smoke light cigarettes. I mean, clove cigarettes, just because it's a different flavor or a different taste it's still a cigarette. Every cigarette is harmful to you," says Kaleigh Kincaid, opposes new ban.

"Anything we can do to stop any young person from wanting to even touch those things is wonderful. It's one less pack of cigarettes off the street but more than that, it's stopping this horrible habit,"says Molly Bennett, supports new ban.

Clove cigarettes represent less than 1% of cigarettes sold in the United States, yet sales bring in about $140 million
a year.

http://www.abc3340.com/news/stories/0909/660893.html


FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUU-
toymachine531
What a fucking idiot. Have fun funding Cash-for-Clunkers when you have even LESS tax-derived money to work with.

No wonder everyone and their grandma are moving funds offshore, dude's a lunatic.
xElizabethTerror
I guess I better stock up on my Djarum Blacks now than.
And to think I worked on his campaign
imupsidedownsometimes
What will I put in my hookah now??
xElizabethTerror
I didn't even think about that. ):
You'll have to start ordering online from FUCKING CANADA. God damn porch monkeys ruining my way of life!
ngard
Hookah isn't illegal, I read the law. There's no mention of it.
imupsidedownsometimes
A hookah is the instrument used to smoke. SHISHA is the flavored, syrupy tobacco that you put in it and actually burn and inhale. It's the shisha that will be banned.
ngard
That's what I meant. Neither were mentioned in the bill.
imupsidedownsometimes
Oh I see. There are a lot of articles. This one doesn't mention shisha, but others do. It's also getting the boot.
ngard
No, I searched in the bill itself. It makes no specific mention of shisha or hookahs.

And it's not the tobacco itself in the shisha that's flavored, it's the mixture and the syrup that the flavor is derived from. Hookah bars are continuing to open, there's no way that they would do that if shisha were in the process of being banned.
Exsiss
Hookahs should be fine because it sounds like they are just banning the cigarettes, where as what you put in a hookah is just the tobacco.
imupsidedownsometimes
I looked up the actual bill too and it doesn't mention shisha, that's only in an article. This is good news.

I'm also okay with the fact that light cigarettes are being banned. Now I don't have to worry about some shittty gas station telling me, "Sorry, we only have lights."

And the area where I live has like six different Indian reservations around it. I've always been able to buy tax free cigarettes at these places and I heard that they will still be able to sell cloves. I'm not sure if this is true though.
xElizabethTerror
I don't see the point in banning light cigarettes, and not regulars as well. Personally ALL of my and I prefer smoking lights to regulars.
NUBS
Niggers should be lynched HUR HUR HUR
ngard
QUOTE (imupsidedownsometimes @ Sep. 21, 2009. 10:37 PM) *
I looked up the actual bill too and it doesn't mention shisha, that's only in an article. This is good news.

I'm also okay with the fact that light cigarettes are being banned. Now I don't have to worry about some shittty gas station telling me, "Sorry, we only have lights."

And the area where I live has like six different Indian reservations around it. I've always been able to buy tax free cigarettes at these places and I heard that they will still be able to sell cloves. I'm not sure if this is true though.

Lights aren't banned. The person in the article just said "that would be like banning lights".
imupsidedownsometimes
Here's a more comprehensive article.
QUOTE
Congress Passes Historic Tobacco Bill
By JIM ABRAMS, AP
posted: 96 DAYS 5 HOURS AGOPrintShareText SizeAAAWASHINGTON (June 12) - No more "light" cigarettes or candy-flavored smokes. Bigger, scarier warning labels. Fewer ads featuring sexy young smokers.
Historic anti-smoking legislation sped to final congressional passage on Friday — after a bitter fight lasting nearly a half-century — and lawmakers and the White House quickly declared it would save the lives of thousands of smokers of all ages. Even more important, they said, the measure could keep countless young people from starting in the first place.
President Barack Obama, admittedly still struggling with his own nicotine habit, saluted passage of the bill, which he will soon sign. He said, "For over a decade, leaders of both parties have fought to prevent tobacco companies from marketing their products to children and provide the public with the information they need to understand what a dangerous habit this is."
Specifically, the measure for the first time will give the Food and Drug Administration authority to regulate what goes into tobacco products, demand changes or elimination of toxic substances and block the introduction of new products.
Will it matter as much as supporters say? Smokers lighting up outside Washington offices had mixed reactions.
Government researcher Reginald Little, 47, who said he swiped his first cigarette from his grandfather at age 15, thought regulation was needed "because you don't know exactly what's in it."
But Becky Cook, a 22-year-old program analyst, said that, while she supported limits on ads aimed at children, "I already know it's bad for me, so I don't think knowing how much is really in one cigarette is really going to make a difference."
And nonsmokers?
Yan Meek, 42, a finance analyst from Jacksonville, Fla., who was visiting the nation's capital with her 8-year-old son, Jesse, doesn't smoke and suggested the legislation would lead to "too much government control over personal lives, personal choices."
Lionel Richardson, 26, an electrical engineer visiting from Huger, S.C., is a a nonsmoker, too, but called the legislation a good thing. "It's a drug," he said, and "the FDA plays a big part in what drugs are sold." As for restricting advertisements, he said, "They make it sexy so kids think it's the cool thing to do."
The thousand health and consumer groups that endorsed the bill say that, combined with other anti-smoking efforts, it can significantly reduce the 400,000 deaths and $100 billion in health care costs attributed every year to smoking in the U.S.
Under the legislation:
— Cigarette packages will have warning labels that cover 50 percent of the front and rear. The word "warning" must be included in capital letters.
— Any remaining tobacco-related sponsorships of sports and entertainment events will be banned, as will giveaways of non-tobacco items with the purchase of a tobacco product. A federal ban will be imposed on all outdoor tobacco advertising within 1,000 feet of schools and playgrounds.
— Point-of-sale advertising will be limited to adults-only facilities, and remaining vending machines will disappear except in places restricted to adults. Retailers who sell to minors will be subject to federal enforcement and penalties.
— Smokers, particularly the younger crowd, will find they can no longer buy cigarettes sweetened by candy flavors or any herb or spices such as strawberry, grape, orange, clove, cinnamon or vanilla. Cigarettes advertised as "light" or "mild," giving the impression that they aren't as harmful to health, will no longer be found on store shelves.
With an estimated 3,500 young people smoking their first cigarette each day, the ban on flavorings alone could have significant health benefits, said Dr. Adam Goldstein, director of the University of North Carolina Tobacco Prevention and Evaluation Program.
In the longer run, aggressive FDA efforts to reduce nicotine content — the bill prohibits an outright ban on nicotine or cigarettes — could "stimulate as dramatic a change in the product as anything we've seen in the last 50 years."
He said it was not inconceivable that adult smokers, now more than 20 percent of the population, could be reduced to less than 5 percent in 20 years.
Other factors that could cut into tobacco use include the sharp rise in prices — Congress earlier this year approved a 62-cent a pack increase in the federal cigarette tax to pay for a children's health program — and measures by the states to ban smoking in public places. Goldstein noted that even North Carolina, the nation's biggest tobacco grower, recently moved to ban smoking in public areas.
Paul Billings, vice president at the American Lung Association, agreed that pricing, education and laws are all needed to drive down smoking and reduce the health consequences. FDA regulation has been "a huge missing piece in the arsenal against tobacco," he said.
New FDA Commissioner Dr. Margaret Hamburg said the agency was ready to "roll up our sleeves" to meet its new obligations. "We really do feel, by being able to regulate tobacco and tobacco products, we can reduce the burden of disease, especially by preventing teen smoking."
The Senate passed the FDA bill on Thursday by a 79-17 vote and the House followed suit on Friday, with a 307-97 vote. Despite those one-sided tallies, the bill has been years in the making.
The FDA tried to exert authority over tobacco products in the 1990s, but the industry fought back and the Supreme Court in 2000 ruled, in a 5-4 decision, that the agency did not have regulatory powers over tobacco under then-existing law. Several efforts by lawmakers since then had fallen short, victims of industry lobbying and opposition from the Bush White House.
Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., sponsor of the bill and chairman at a memorable 1994 hearing where tobacco industry executives denied that nicotine was addictive, relished the long-sought victory.
"I think we are today at the last gasp of the tobacco industry's efforts to protect their profits at the expense of the health and lives of the American people and to get children to take up this habit," he said.
Philip Morris USA, the nation's largest tobacco company, came out in support of the bill, saying it was behind tough but fair regulation. Its chief rivals were opposed, saying that FDA restrictions on new products would lock in Philip Morris' share of the market.
Costs of the new program will be paid for by a new user fee imposed on the industry. The Congressional Budget Office estimated that assessments could rise from $235 million in 2010 to $712 million in 2019.
There was some opposition from Republicans who questioned the ability of the FDA to handle tobacco regulation and criticized what they said was another Democratic-led intrusion of the federal government in private business. North Carolina Republican Howard Coble said the bill is unpopular in his state, with its 12,000 tobacco farmers. "Their fear is tobacco today, the family farm tomorrow."

Associated Press Writer Ann Sanner contributed to this report.

The bill is H.R. 1256.
ngard
And to blame this on Obama is retarded, the fact of the matter is, this would be passed with or without his approval. Over 2/3 of Congress approved of and voted for the bill. It was inevitable.

QUOTE
(38) As the National Cancer Institute has found, many smokers mistakenly believe that ‘low tar’ and ‘light’ cigarettes cause fewer health problems than other cigarettes. As the National Cancer Institute has also found, mistaken beliefs about the health consequences of smoking ‘low tar’ and ‘light’ cigarettes can reduce the motivation to quit smoking entirely and thereby lead to disease and death.
(39) Recent studies have demonstrated that there has been no reduction in risk on a population-wide basis from ‘low tar’ and ‘light’ cigarettes, and such products may actually increase the risk of tobacco use.


This is the logic behind the banning of "light" cigarettes.

What they just have to do is repackage them under a different name, just not imply that they're less harmful. For instance "Camel Airs" or some shit like that.
irish smurfy
Get over it
Colino
I only smoked cloves a couple times. But as long as they don't ban menthol's or flavored swishers, i'm good.
Da Pig
how am i suppose to look cool smoking regulars?
ngard
Wear a white t-shirt and roll them up your sleeve.
Pookie_
''Flavored'' cigs are for pussies anyways.

I'm waiting for the ''Family FastFood Prevention and SH|T,poisonous, hazardous, carcinogenic products/food/ etc. Control Act''

We live in a toxic environment which the governments have created themselves and now they seem to ''care'' about our health. Very convincing.
billyme
I love how people throw around Obama's name like it's purely his fault. The fact is, the government gets paid and has too much money on their hands. They all want to 'make a difference.' It's true that there are current problems the government deals with... they should focus more on that, cut their salaries and hours (except in times of urgency). We don't need a government with officials who are all focused on making things better... every year, the bubble they're putting us in gets smaller and smaller. How are we going to breathe soon?

We need a government who mainly focuses on NOW like many other governments do, along with ancient civilizations. Everyone wants to be the savior and hero though, so.. that's the whole problem nowadays. That's why laws like this are passed, that's why we're going toward socialism and that is also why the government has no time to focus on the recession, school bullying (like today's article), or finding a way to start focusing on finding sources of profit in the USA (as opposed to relying on other countries). Or even small things like helping small businesses set off the ground (that offer quality, instead of the modern concept of empires, which is quantity) without being trampled by someone bigger.
Pookie_
They all want to make a difference? As long as it benefits themselves enormously, then yes. But for the sake of the people? Nope.

No one wants to be a savior or hero, they want to seem like one, all they want to do is save their own asses. And USA for example is going toward fascism (or already is).

Obama sucks ass and there is enough data to say that all his talk about hope and change was just one big pathetic show.
love1a1
he's just trying to get kids to stop smoking
billyme
--@love1a1---
Well, what right does he have? People should be able to govern themselves, if they are psychologically capable. The government has to control the economy and ect. ect., but let us govern ourselves. No one is hurting others, and as long as that remains the case, the government just has to butt off.

QUOTE (Pookie_ @ Sep. 24, 2009. 12:23 PM) *
They all want to make a difference? As long as it benefits themselves enormously, then yes. But for the sake of the people? Nope.

No one wants to be a savior or hero, they want to seem like one, all they want to do is save their own asses. And USA for example is going toward fascism (or already is).

Obama sucks ass and there is enough data to say that all his talk about hope and change was just one big pathetic show.


I'm sorry, I'd have to disagree though. I personally think a lot of them really are trying to make a difference, whether it is partially for recognitions is another question. I suppose everyone has their own views on the government though. I suppose I can agree the government is gaining more power and not caring about what the citizens care to some extent, but I don't think it's full fascism. I also believe that fascism and socialism can co-exist and I think we are adapting socialist policies further than we should be.

All presidents suck, he's not worse than any others. From where I'm sitting, I view him as one of the presidents who at least have an IQ and a conscience, the ones that at least try to help in whatever they're view of helping is. I don't support him, nor do I fully oppose him (unless we actually got someone better - someone who is like him, but is fully impartial and listens solely to the people... but no one with a high iq would do that, it'd be more likely to be someone who is a puppet, like bush). Btw, there's no data toward either side. He promised to try and give what he thought would help the country and that's what he's doing. What kind of statistics can you possibly have on something so oppinionated?
Pookie_
QUOTE (billyme @ Sep. 24, 2009. 02:12 PM) *
Btw, there's no data toward either side. He promised to try and give what he thought would help the country and that's what he's doing. What kind of statistics can you possibly have on something so oppinionated?


Maybe that is what he thinks he's doing, cause the data says something different .
All the info is out there, it's for the person him/herself to discover.

It seems you're taking my statement about hope and change too literally in some sense. It's not really something ''oppinionated''. He gives people sweet words and promises, fortunately, people don't want to hear only words all the time, they also want to see some action which could give those words more value and I don't see that kind of action that for example could help the people enormously and trust me, if he had the ''right'' brains and the ''right'' conscience, he could do that. But maybe that's just me thinking this.

Perhaps the future will tell us how USA will ''end''. Unfortunately, I don't see a bright light at the end of the dark tunnel yet, actually, I think it's getting darker and darker.
billyme
QUOTE (Pookie_ @ Sep. 25, 2009. 05:56 AM) *
QUOTE (billyme @ Sep. 24, 2009. 02:12 PM) *
Btw, there's no data toward either side. He promised to try and give what he thought would help the country and that's what he's doing. What kind of statistics can you possibly have on something so oppinionated?


Maybe that is what he thinks he's doing, cause the data says something different .
All the info is out there, it's for the person him/herself to discover.

It seems you're taking my statement about hope and change too literally in some sense. It's not really something ''oppinionated''. He gives people sweet words and promises, fortunately, people don't want to hear only words all the time, they also want to see some action which could give those words more value and I don't see that kind of action that for example could help the people enormously and trust me, if he had the ''right'' brains and the ''right'' conscience, he could do that. But maybe that's just me thinking this.

Perhaps the future will tell us how USA will ''end''. Unfortunately, I don't see a bright light at the end of the dark tunnel yet, actually, I think it's getting darker and darker.


Perhaps you focus a little too much on the opinions of the anti-media? There's really no data. He told us what he wants to do, and he may not be passing the best laws but he is passing laws toward those goals.

And, that tunnel is your own view. It depends on what you're thinking about. Ever since the government has started putting us in those metaphorical bubbles, many, many years ago, we've been in that tunnel. If you're viewing something like the economy though, the stock market is finally starting to go up (Look at DOW, especially) and many economists predict it'll continue. <..>
toymachine531
QUOTE (billyme @ Sep. 25, 2009. 10:59 AM) *
If you're viewing something like the economy though, the stock market is finally starting to go up (Look at DOW, especially)


Argument was good until RIGHT there. Game = lost.
JJbros
QUOTE (billyme @ Sep. 24, 2009. 08:50 AM) *
I love how people throw around Obama's name like it's purely his fault. The fact is, the government gets paid and has too much money on their hands. They all want to 'make a difference.' It's true that there are current problems the government deals with... they should focus more on that, cut their salaries and hours (except in times of urgency). We don't need a government with officials who are all focused on making things better... every year, the bubble they're putting us in gets smaller and smaller. How are we going to breathe soon?

We need a government who mainly focuses on NOW like many other governments do, along with ancient civilizations. Everyone wants to be the savior and hero though, so.. that's the whole problem nowadays. That's why laws like this are passed, that's why we're going toward socialism and that is also why the government has no time to focus on the recession, school bullying (like today's article), or finding a way to start focusing on finding sources of profit in the USA (as opposed to relying on other countries). Or even small things like helping small businesses set off the ground (that offer quality, instead of the modern concept of empires, which is quantity) without being trampled by someone bigger.

I just wanted to make note that people used george w. bush's name like that all the time, so why can't we use Obama's in such a way?
missyd
QUOTE (ngard @ Sep. 21, 2009. 11:26 PM) *
And to blame this on Obama is retarded, the fact of the matter is, this would be passed with or without his approval. Over 2/3 of Congress approved of and voted for the bill. It was inevitable.

QUOTE
(38) As the National Cancer Institute has found, many smokers mistakenly believe that ‘low tar’ and ‘light’ cigarettes cause fewer health problems than other cigarettes. As the National Cancer Institute has also found, mistaken beliefs about the health consequences of smoking ‘low tar’ and ‘light’ cigarettes can reduce the motivation to quit smoking entirely and thereby lead to disease and death.
(39) Recent studies have demonstrated that there has been no reduction in risk on a population-wide basis from ‘low tar’ and ‘light’ cigarettes, and such products may actually increase the risk of tobacco use.


This is the logic behind the banning of "light" cigarettes.

What they just have to do is repackage them under a different name, just not imply that they're less harmful. For instance "Camel Airs" or some candy like that.

just a thought:
the reason for the ban has been said that flavored/clover cigarettes are used by Big Tobacco to target teenagers to gain as new clientele (aka addicts). it's the same reason the companies had to stop using cartoons and mascots, such as Joe Camel, in order to stop the corporations from recruiting kids.

i'm not saying i agree with it - i'm very libertarian and am completely against the ban on drugs/cigs (however, i don't smoke cigarettes). i just wanted to explain some of the "logic" behind it.

and as nick said, Congress also approved it. not just Obama.
rezp_love_smosh
no more light cigarettes a candy
mad.gif
billyme
QUOTE (JJbros @ Sep. 25, 2009. 06:09 PM) *
QUOTE (billyme @ Sep. 24, 2009. 08:50 AM) *
I love how people throw around Obama's name like it's purely his fault. The fact is, the government gets paid and has too much money on their hands. They all want to 'make a difference.' It's true that there are current problems the government deals with... they should focus more on that, cut their salaries and hours (except in times of urgency). We don't need a government with officials who are all focused on making things better... every year, the bubble they're putting us in gets smaller and smaller. How are we going to breathe soon?

We need a government who mainly focuses on NOW like many other governments do, along with ancient civilizations. Everyone wants to be the savior and hero though, so.. that's the whole problem nowadays. That's why laws like this are passed, that's why we're going toward socialism and that is also why the government has no time to focus on the recession, school bullying (like today's article), or finding a way to start focusing on finding sources of profit in the USA (as opposed to relying on other countries). Or even small things like helping small businesses set off the ground (that offer quality, instead of the modern concept of empires, which is quantity) without being trampled by someone bigger.

I just wanted to make note that people used george w. bush's name like that all the time, so why can't we use Obama's in such a way?


Well, firslty, just because people did wrong before doesn't make it okay to do the same. So that question was just meant to be a pain in the ass, in my mind.

Second, there's an enormous difference between Obama and Bush (again, from where I'm sitting). Bush was a puppet, a lot of the people behind him were doing things that were purely selfish. I truly believe that the policies Obama installs are, at the very least, meant to be helpful and fufill his promises in his mind. But even if my opinion was wrong, two wrongs don't make a right. That's horrible justification and rationalization.
Pookie_
QUOTE (billyme)
I truly believe that the policies Obama installs are, at the very least, meant to be helpful and fufill his promises in his mind.


I guess time will tell, billyme.
JJbros
QUOTE (billyme @ Sep. 26, 2009. 11:08 AM) *
QUOTE (JJbros @ Sep. 25, 2009. 06:09 PM) *
QUOTE (billyme @ Sep. 24, 2009. 08:50 AM) *
I love how people throw around Obama's name like it's purely his fault. The fact is, the government gets paid and has too much money on their hands. They all want to 'make a difference.' It's true that there are current problems the government deals with... they should focus more on that, cut their salaries and hours (except in times of urgency). We don't need a government with officials who are all focused on making things better... every year, the bubble they're putting us in gets smaller and smaller. How are we going to breathe soon?

We need a government who mainly focuses on NOW like many other governments do, along with ancient civilizations. Everyone wants to be the savior and hero though, so.. that's the whole problem nowadays. That's why laws like this are passed, that's why we're going toward socialism and that is also why the government has no time to focus on the recession, school bullying (like today's article), or finding a way to start focusing on finding sources of profit in the USA (as opposed to relying on other countries). Or even small things like helping small businesses set off the ground (that offer quality, instead of the modern concept of empires, which is quantity) without being trampled by someone bigger.

I just wanted to make note that people used george w. bush's name like that all the time, so why can't we use Obama's in such a way?


Well, firslty, just because people did wrong before doesn't make it okay to do the same. So that question was just meant to be a pain in the ass, in my mind.

Second, there's an enormous difference between Obama and Bush (again, from where I'm sitting). Bush was a puppet, a lot of the people behind him were doing things that were purely selfish. I truly believe that the policies Obama installs are, at the very least, meant to be helpful and fufill his promises in his mind. But even if my opinion was wrong, two wrongs don't make a right. That's horrible justification and rationalization.

Well, from where i'm sitting, Obama's the puppet, Bush generally did things right and made some good decisons in my opinion, Obama seems a little too fake, like the government is using his positive image to market their ideas.
Ex.- the government bans flvored cigarettes, this upsets many smokers,- but they put Obama's face on it and say "Obama is for this, why aren't you?" as you said before, they shouldn't use his name likes its all his fault, so i partly agree with you. But my question really was-"If we can't use Obama's name like that, then why was it okay for people to use Bush's name like that?"

And for all the people complaining, just switch to flavored cigars, they aren't affected by this bill.
Rescue
QUOTE (billyme @ Sep. 24, 2009. 11:50 AM) *
I love how people throw around Obama's name like it's purely his fault.


[assuming that was sarcasm] But you think it was okay when people did that to Bush, don't you?
billyme
QUOTE (Rescue @ Sep. 26, 2009. 10:10 PM) *
QUOTE (billyme @ Sep. 24, 2009. 11:50 AM) *
I love how people throw around Obama's name like it's purely his fault.


[assuming that was sarcasm] But you think it was okay when people did that to Bush, don't you?

QUOTE
Well, from where i'm sitting, Obama's the puppet, Bush generally did things right and made some good decisons in my opinion, Obama seems a little too fake, like the government is using his positive image to market their ideas.
Ex.- the government bans flvored cigarettes, this upsets many smokers,- but they put Obama's face on it and say "Obama is for this, why aren't you?" as you said before, they shouldn't use his name likes its all his fault, so i partly agree with you. But my question really was-"If we can't use Obama's name like that, then why was it okay for people to use Bush's name like that?"

And for all the people complaining, just switch to flavored cigars, they aren't affected by this bill.


See, same opinions. Everyone just seems to follow the media instead of deciding it before they choose to let themselves be biased and influenced by the media. I don't think it was good that people attacked Bush... I don't agree with him, personally though. Nor do I agree with Obama's actions, though I appreciate that he's trying at least. Regardless of what I think though, you're both attacking Obama now and sympathizing with Bush. You both think it's right to attack Obama and rationalize it by the crap Bush got. I don't agree, personally. They are also two completely different people, btw. >.>

If everyone is so against the president, it won't make things any better. It might just freak him out into making crappy choices, just like it influenced Bush, probably. But if you guys start this crap at the beginning of the term, it won't help. Just don't vote for him next time; vote for the next candidate that comes along.
JJbros
QUOTE (billyme @ Sep. 27, 2009. 08:51 AM) *
QUOTE (Rescue @ Sep. 26, 2009. 10:10 PM) *
QUOTE (billyme @ Sep. 24, 2009. 11:50 AM) *
I love how people throw around Obama's name like it's purely his fault.


[assuming that was sarcasm] But you think it was okay when people did that to Bush, don't you?

QUOTE
Well, from where i'm sitting, Obama's the puppet, Bush generally did things right and made some good decisons in my opinion, Obama seems a little too fake, like the government is using his positive image to market their ideas.
Ex.- the government bans flvored cigarettes, this upsets many smokers,- but they put Obama's face on it and say "Obama is for this, why aren't you?" as you said before, they shouldn't use his name likes its all his fault, so i partly agree with you. But my question really was-"If we can't use Obama's name like that, then why was it okay for people to use Bush's name like that?"

And for all the people complaining, just switch to flavored cigars, they aren't affected by this bill.


See, same opinions. Everyone just seems to follow the media instead of deciding it before they choose to let themselves be biased and influenced by the media. I don't think it was good that people attacked Bush... I don't agree with him, personally though. Nor do I agree with Obama's actions, though I appreciate that he's trying at least. Regardless of what I think though, you're both attacking Obama now and sympathizing with Bush. You both think it's right to attack Obama and rationalize it by the crap Bush got. I don't agree, personally. They are also two completely different people, btw. >.>

If everyone is so against the president, it won't make things any better. It might just freak him out into making crappy choices, just like it influenced Bush, probably. But if you guys start this crap at the beginning of the term, it won't help. Just don't vote for him next time; vote for the next candidate that comes along.

I don't trust the media at all, i make my opinions based on what my parents taught me and with research i do on my own, i am not led by the media and i'm not attacking obama i'm just pointing out that his image is being used to promote government ideas, and in case you didn't know this, i detect a bit of obama sympathy in your last post- "i appreciate that he's (obama) trying at least" yet i did not hear that about bush, are you implying that he didn't try?

And Obama and bush have more in common than you might think, they have both done somthing that only 41 other people have done- held the office of president of the U.S.
toymachine531
No one's attacking Obama, they're attacking you because you're a bleeding heart democrat. At least someone like Melissa will admit she's classically liberal leaning (as am I), but you try to hide behind this "fair and balanced" bullshit in EVERY argument you do, essentially the rebuttal to FoxNews. You cannot deny that the Bush administration "tried", but somehow, you are attempting; he was criticized and crucified by the liberal media, and now Obama is attacking the basis of his campaign promise - social progression, reform and change (meaning we get to RETAIN social rights, not have them stripped away), and you say he's TRYING? Holy shit man, grow a pair, stand up for your beliefs, not for some public official that doesn't care about you whatsoever.

This is why you've annoyed me, ALWAYS - you have no idea what you're arguing for. You just... do. You yell and scream and fight for something you know NOTHING about. I support gay marriage. I support abortion. I support nationalizing medicine and reallocation of funds to the less wealthy. But every single argument I've ever had with you, you took the easy way out, arguing on a mono-partisan podium, never moving, REFUSING to see the alternative, even when you were defeated, you were a snob to the bitter end. You can be wrong, billyme, and you often are. This is why you will lose every single argument you will ever have, ever. You are unwilling to compromise, and your debates are stale - reiterating the same point over and over and over and over again doesn't make you clever.

This is probably why Obama is changing his entire basis - he doesn't want to be represented by the majority mental inepts that voted for him and know not of the issues. I hope someone smacks you with an economics textbook so you learn something applicable, you sad 15 year old pissant.

Barack_Obama_of_USA
Is someone questioning my motives?
billyme
Not going to bother responding to White's post. He's an asshole online with no common sense and hypocritical (thinks he's right and calls me stubborn). Regardless, you're just a jerk and useless, so no point in responding past to say that I am defending my own beliefs. I just like to give others a chance, not that I'm fully democratic, but I can see enough to view that he's trying.

QUOTE (JJbros @ Sep. 27, 2009. 03:46 PM) *
QUOTE (billyme @ Sep. 27, 2009. 08:51 AM) *
QUOTE (Rescue @ Sep. 26, 2009. 10:10 PM) *
QUOTE (billyme @ Sep. 24, 2009. 11:50 AM) *
I love how people throw around Obama's name like it's purely his fault.


[assuming that was sarcasm] But you think it was okay when people did that to Bush, don't you?

QUOTE
Well, from where i'm sitting, Obama's the puppet, Bush generally did things right and made some good decisons in my opinion, Obama seems a little too fake, like the government is using his positive image to market their ideas.
Ex.- the government bans flvored cigarettes, this upsets many smokers,- but they put Obama's face on it and say "Obama is for this, why aren't you?" as you said before, they shouldn't use his name likes its all his fault, so i partly agree with you. But my question really was-"If we can't use Obama's name like that, then why was it okay for people to use Bush's name like that?"

And for all the people complaining, just switch to flavored cigars, they aren't affected by this bill.


See, same opinions. Everyone just seems to follow the media instead of deciding it before they choose to let themselves be biased and influenced by the media. I don't think it was good that people attacked Bush... I don't agree with him, personally though. Nor do I agree with Obama's actions, though I appreciate that he's trying at least. Regardless of what I think though, you're both attacking Obama now and sympathizing with Bush. You both think it's right to attack Obama and rationalize it by the crap Bush got. I don't agree, personally. They are also two completely different people, btw. >.>

If everyone is so against the president, it won't make things any better. It might just freak him out into making crappy choices, just like it influenced Bush, probably. But if you guys start this crap at the beginning of the term, it won't help. Just don't vote for him next time; vote for the next candidate that comes along.

I don't trust the media at all, i make my opinions based on what my parents taught me and with research i do on my own, i am not led by the media and i'm not attacking obama i'm just pointing out that his image is being used to promote government ideas, and in case you didn't know this, i detect a bit of obama sympathy in your last post- "i appreciate that he's (obama) trying at least" yet i did not hear that about bush, are you implying that he didn't try?

And Obama and bush have more in common than you might think, they have both done somthing that only 41 other people have done- held the office of president of the U.S.


I don't know. I wasn't old enough to fully understand Bush from the beginning, though I had sympathy for the man since he took more crap than he deserved. But I do remember Obama and his campaign. The reason I have sympathy for him isn't just because of the crap he takes (all presidenal candidates do), but because all of his goals (implied or spoken) are a part of what he is. I can see that he feels those goals are for the common good and he tries to work toward them. I fully don't agree with the goals and I think they are a bunch of nonsense and hogwash, even if all presidental candidates have a bunch of stuff that will limit and destroy our freedoms, but I can have respect for the man (and sympathy, which I believe people are too inclined to forget unless there is fear of social perseceution).
DastardLeeBastard
Now come on. all Our Saviour, Obama wants to do is to protect the children from themselves. Next, he'll protect them from Evil Ronald Mickey-D. Then he'll deny them driver's licenses, because as we all know, teenagers get in accidents. Then he'll come after the adults, with his All Knowing and Powerful Health Care Bill, and dip his hands into everyone's bank accounts. Now come on, people, it's all for our own good, and to satisfy his insatiable swelled ego!

The following chant is based upon a real chant, by kindergartners, at a New Jersey school. My version. I know; it sucks, but hey! I'm a poet and didn't know it.

MMM MMM MMM
Barack Hussein Obama
You'll work all day
He'll tax your pay...

MMM MMM MMM
Barack Hussein Obama
He'll inflate the dollar
Make us all holler!

MMM MMM MMM
Barack Hussein Obama
He'll tax the rich
Make them all bitch...

MMM MMM MMM
Barack Hussein Obama
The kids will snitch
Aint that a bitch...

MMM MMM MMM
Barack Hussein Obama! HAIL OBAMA, THE ALL KNOWING MESSIAH! THE SEAS WILL RECEDE! HE CAN CHANGE THE LAWS OF PHYSICS AND ECONOMICS! OH WHAT WOULD WE EVER DO WITHOUT HIM AND HIS GOVERNMENT?

People! Wake up and smell the whiff of change in the air! Change we'll all regret. Fundamental change, as in... Big Granny/Nanny is watching you. Give up your car for the G.W. hoax! Give up your pop, your burgers and fries! Give up all you hold dear! After all, like crappy tasting medicine, IT'S ALL FOR OUR OWN GOOD!
NOW GROVEL BEFORE HIS HIGHNESS, THE NARCISSIST!

Damn those who think they're the boss of me.


toymachine531
Don't know why you referred to me as "White"; regardless, I hope to see you banned, so I will start the crusade for such action. You are a tumor and a detriment on this forum (P&R, mainly, I've never seen you show your pathetic, ignorant face outside of this sub-section), and I find it funny you say I have no common sense. Just because you have Thesaurus.com bookmarked so you can attempt to impress college kids 5 years older than you with your mental fortitude, it doesn't make you cool.

That being said, you just admitted that essentially every argument you've ever made is void, since you confess you only remember the term (partial, at that) of ONE President. That's really saying something.
Pookie_
QUOTE (toymachine531 @ Sep. 27, 2009. 04:51 PM) *
No one's attacking Obama, they're attacking you because you're a bleeding heart democrat. At least someone like Melissa will admit she's classically liberal leaning (as am I), but you try to hide behind this "fair and balanced" bullshit in EVERY argument you do, essentially the rebuttal to FoxNews. You cannot deny that the Bush administration "tried", but somehow, you are attempting; he was criticized and crucified by the liberal media, and now Obama is attacking the basis of his campaign promise - social progression, reform and change (meaning we get to RETAIN social rights, not have them stripped away), and you say he's TRYING? Holy shit man, grow a pair, stand up for your beliefs, not for some public official that doesn't care about you whatsoever.

This is why you've annoyed me, ALWAYS - you have no idea what you're arguing for. You just... do. You yell and scream and fight for something you know NOTHING about. I support gay marriage. I support abortion. I support nationalizing medicine and reallocation of funds to the less wealthy. But every single argument I've ever had with you, you took the easy way out, arguing on a mono-partisan podium, never moving, REFUSING to see the alternative, even when you were defeated, you were a snob to the bitter end. You can be wrong, billyme, and you often are. This is why you will lose every single argument you will ever have, ever. You are unwilling to compromise, and your debates are stale - reiterating the same point over and over and over and over again doesn't make you clever.

This is probably why Obama is changing his entire basis - he doesn't want to be represented by the majority mental inepts that voted for him and know not of the issues. I hope someone smacks you with an economics textbook so you learn something applicable, you sad 15 year old pissant.


I hope someone smacks you with some soap so you can wash your mouth. I don't think anyone would reply to such a post. Maybe you could show some little respect in your words.

Perhaps you've learned from the way you were raised that debates are about losing or winning instead of seeing them as possibilities to teach others or to learn something from them. Don't be surprised if you're being ignored. They say you get what you give to life.

And if I compare this subforum with all the others, I must say that this is probably the one where most people go who can think at least a little. All the other are made for people who don't like to think and like to make a lot of friends while they show their funny pictures to each other. That's great really. Not my cup of tea yaknow. So I can understand why billyme doesn't show his face outside of this subforum.
Fortunately there is no rule that says we have to be in other subforums as well (not that I would have the time wink.gif).
toymachine531
I don't really care if I'm ignored in the slightest. You're all boring. FD and anima and ThyThouTrust are all gone, left with a cesspool of you lummoxes to rant about things you know nothing about. It used to be intellectual. It used to be a place where you could sit back and watch legitimate things happen. This place is terrible now, and it's people like you and billyme's fault. Or maybe it's a lack of the names prior, who knows. Regardless, it's sad to see the average intelligence quotient drop by 50 points by the removal of three members.

I hope you all rot in hell. Thanks for listening to my senior remembrance of days passed.
JJbros
QUOTE (billyme @ Sep. 27, 2009. 07:35 PM) *
Not going to bother responding to White's post. He's an asshole online with no common sense and hypocritical (thinks he's right and calls me stubborn). Regardless, you're just a jerk and useless, so no point in responding past to say that I am defending my own beliefs. I just like to give others a chance, not that I'm fully democratic, but I can see enough to view that he's trying.

QUOTE (JJbros @ Sep. 27, 2009. 03:46 PM) *
QUOTE (billyme @ Sep. 27, 2009. 08:51 AM) *
QUOTE (Rescue @ Sep. 26, 2009. 10:10 PM) *
QUOTE (billyme @ Sep. 24, 2009. 11:50 AM) *
I love how people throw around Obama's name like it's purely his fault.


[assuming that was sarcasm] But you think it was okay when people did that to Bush, don't you?

QUOTE
Well, from where i'm sitting, Obama's the puppet, Bush generally did things right and made some good decisons in my opinion, Obama seems a little too fake, like the government is using his positive image to market their ideas.
Ex.- the government bans flvored cigarettes, this upsets many smokers,- but they put Obama's face on it and say "Obama is for this, why aren't you?" as you said before, they shouldn't use his name likes its all his fault, so i partly agree with you. But my question really was-"If we can't use Obama's name like that, then why was it okay for people to use Bush's name like that?"

And for all the people complaining, just switch to flavored cigars, they aren't affected by this bill.


See, same opinions. Everyone just seems to follow the media instead of deciding it before they choose to let themselves be biased and influenced by the media. I don't think it was good that people attacked Bush... I don't agree with him, personally though. Nor do I agree with Obama's actions, though I appreciate that he's trying at least. Regardless of what I think though, you're both attacking Obama now and sympathizing with Bush. You both think it's right to attack Obama and rationalize it by the crap Bush got. I don't agree, personally. They are also two completely different people, btw. >.>

If everyone is so against the president, it won't make things any better. It might just freak him out into making crappy choices, just like it influenced Bush, probably. But if you guys start this crap at the beginning of the term, it won't help. Just don't vote for him next time; vote for the next candidate that comes along.

I don't trust the media at all, i make my opinions based on what my parents taught me and with research i do on my own, i am not led by the media and i'm not attacking obama i'm just pointing out that his image is being used to promote government ideas, and in case you didn't know this, i detect a bit of obama sympathy in your last post- "i appreciate that he's (obama) trying at least" yet i did not hear that about bush, are you implying that he didn't try?

And Obama and bush have more in common than you might think, they have both done somthing that only 41 other people have done- held the office of president of the U.S.


I don't know. I wasn't old enough to fully understand Bush from the beginning, though I had sympathy for the man since he took more crap than he deserved. But I do remember Obama and his campaign. The reason I have sympathy for him isn't just because of the crap he takes (all presidenal candidates do), but because all of his goals (implied or spoken) are a part of what he is. I can see that he feels those goals are for the common good and he tries to work toward them. I fully don't agree with the goals and I think they are a bunch of nonsense and hogwash, even if all presidental candidates have a bunch of stuff that will limit and destroy our freedoms, but I can have respect for the man (and sympathy, which I believe people are too inclined to forget unless there is fear of social perseceution).

Prehaps billy, but we'll just have to see what kind of president Obama becomes


QUOTE (toymachine531 @ Sep. 28, 2009. 01:04 PM) *
I don't really care if I'm ignored in the slightest. You're all boring. FD and anima and ThyThouTrust are all gone, left with a cesspool of you lummoxes to rant about things you know nothing about. It used to be intellectual. It used to be a place where you could sit back and watch legitimate things happen. This place is terrible now, and it's people like you and billyme's fault. Or maybe it's a lack of the names prior, who knows. Regardless, it's sad to see the average intelligence quotient drop by 50 points by the removal of three members.

I hope you all rot in hell. Thanks for listening to my senior remembrance of days passed.

I feel your pain man but thythou is still on isn't he? at least thats what i thought, i know that these forums may not be the same, but thats why we need people like you the keep the spark alive, don't quit on us now
toymachine531
I'm over it. There's nothing to argue. Every point has been established. All that's left to do is bitch about all the terrible things Obama has done, when in reality, he hasn't even done anything yet.

Have fun.
Pookie_
QUOTE (toymachine531 @ Sep. 28, 2009. 01:04 PM) *
I don't really care if I'm ignored in the slightest. You're all boring. FD and anima and ThyThouTrust are all gone, left with a cesspool of you lummoxes to rant about things you know nothing about. It used to be intellectual. It used to be a place where you could sit back and watch legitimate things happen. This place is terrible now, and it's people like you and billyme's fault. Or maybe it's a lack of the names prior, who knows. Regardless, it's sad to see the average intelligence quotient drop by 50 points by the removal of three members.

I hope you all rot in hell. Thanks for listening to my senior remembrance of days passed.


I think that intelligence depends on what you understand with it. I have yet to see a person who is truly intelligent. One can read books as many as they want or know as many formulas as they want, as long as they don't know themselves, it really doesn't have much ''value'', but that might be just my opinion.

Well if it makes you feel any better, I think that I already am living in a world that looks like Hell, ..ain't rotting though.

Often, you can know a person by what they say and how they think things should be done and how they want things to be done. He might not do it YET, but he is planning to. There are enough signs to indicate what Obama is doing and whether his plans are beneficial for the people or not.
I just hope, for the sake of all the people on this planet, that he will take his hands off Iran. There is no reason for war, there is no so-called threat. Remember Iraq's nonexistent nuclear weapons?

It's all a show, can't you see? You're merely a puppet, you're nothing and yet you and others think that there is a system that will take care of you, that they will protect you from enemies (which they have imagined/created themselves).
Well they're not there to protect you. Not at all. Why? Because there is no enemy. In actuality the system is your enemy. How many people have died from being tasered? How many people are suffering from obesity/cancer/diabetes etc. because of the unhealthy food/drinks? Why do men develop prostate cancer from drinking fluoride contained water for years? Why does aspartame exist AT all? Why is Tamiflu advised when it doesn't help at ALL and actually has even worse symptoms? Why are vaccines being promoted when they are NOT beneficial at all?

And the list goes on and on.

The system doesn't want you to concentrate on that, they want you to for example be afraid of Al-Q , of Iran and give them their support to attack them, in short; they want you to just go on with your life and let them do all the other stuff, they just want your trust and that you will believe the system. The majority of the people, especially in America, don't really pay attention to what happens ''outside'' and ''inside'', they just live their lives, buy new shoes, go to school, WHO knows what REALLY happens? They want your knowledge to be based on the huge titles in newspapers that you read every day when you're off to work or school. AL-Q is BAD, Iran is BAD, smoking is BAD etc. etc. and if you ask people why something/one is bad? Well, that is when there is silence. Or they come up with things that are not even proven in reality.

Mostly, what is in the newspapers is mixed stuff, truth covered in lies.

Aaaand in the end, you will be the ones who will be backstabbed with a HUGE knife.

Ye many will think that this is just bull, that it's just so OFF reality. But the proof is there, the signs are there and whoever who cares to pay attention will know what I'm talking about.

And this is why I would like to encourage every bitching about his (future) acts, because they are selfish and based on lies,
it's the same story again, only in different colors.
Jake.
Meh. Flavoured cigs.. :/ Never appealed to me anyway, long as they don't take away my fags I'm all good. Actually scratch that I do like menthols.

Either way this means sex all to me I'm from England.
BloodTsunami
Obama bans cigarettes, YIPEEE!!!!!! I damn hate smelling that horrible stench given from the $hit.
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